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Raptor Lake Leaks

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Someone sad AMD will release refresh, well when you look from other perspective, AMD showed higher performance than Intel best product, and that with refresh. Raptor Lake will be refined ADL, nothing spectacular, just more e cores and couple % more ipc increase, while Zen 4 will be completely new architecture. People forgot that AMD on same node achived about 19% IPC increase (Zen 3 vs Zen 2), i'm sure they can achive at least that on the new node, but im quite sure it will be 20-25% if not more, on RPL range if not more, and 5 ghz clock, and it will be more optimised for v-cache so if they need they can release sooner 3d cache versions to destroy RPL in gaming.
 
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Predicting that AMD will retake the performance crown *in the future* is one thing. There is at least some information to support such a prediction. (Although still just a prediction of something that has yet to actually happen)

Claiming they have it right now is just delusional and/or disingenuous.
 
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Predicting that AMD will retake the performance crown *in the future* is one thing. There is at least some information to support such a prediction. (Although still just a prediction of something that has yet to actually happen)

Claiming they have it right now is just delusional and/or disingenuous.
I said they showed in couple of games higher performance, at worst same, and there is a game that favors Intel, and ADL looks much better in that game when compared to Zen 3, but with 3d cache Zen 3 won, so it isn't small thing.
 
Soldato
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Someone sad AMD will release refresh, well when you look from other perspective, AMD showed higher performance than Intel best product, and that with refresh. Raptor Lake will be refined ADL, nothing spectacular, just more e cores and couple % more ipc increase, while Zen 4 will be completely new architecture. People forgot that AMD on same node achived about 19% IPC increase (Zen 3 vs Zen 2), i'm sure they can achive at least that on the new node, but im quite sure it will be 20-25% if not more, on RPL range if not more, and 5 ghz clock, and it will be more optimised for v-cache so if they need they can release sooner 3d cache versions to destroy RPL in gaming.
Don't Alderlake already have a 16% ipc advantage over zen 3 so if raptorlake can hit 10% with boost clocks at 5.5ghz then it will be right up there and this time Intel will have the advantage of cheap motherboards and DDR4.
 
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I said they showed in couple of games higher performance, at worst same, and there is a game that favors Intel, and ADL looks much better in that game when compared to Zen 3, but with 3d cache Zen 3 won, so it isn't small thing.

AMD made those claims, yes but only against what Intel has on the market right now. (Not against Intel's upcoming KS part.)

AMD is claiming their *future* part can beat Intel's *current* part. But Intel has the KS coming, so there's that. Come to think of it, I would expect either manufacture's *future* parts to outperform any and all parts on the market right now. (in the future)

Regardless, the current situation is that Intel offers the fastest part....right now.
 
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Don't Alderlake already have a 16% ipc advantage over zen 3 so if raptorlake can hit 10% with boost clocks at 5.5ghz then it will be right up there and this time Intel will have the advantage of cheap motherboards and DDR4.
Without v-cache, i believe Zen 4 and RPL will have similar IPC, Zen 4 is completely new architecture on new node so they can achive that 26% more IPC, and if need they can release from the start v-cache versions, it will have better yield at that time, and Zen 4 will be more optimised for vertical stacking. About ddr4 part, if Zen 4 is full ddr5 then that means memory controller don't have compromises that hybrid design have, they will work at higher ddr5 speed and offer more modes, so it isn't that bad thing. I myself have plan to upgrade to next gen platform, ddr5 is future proof so higher price at start, but it will work longer so no problem for me, i will retire ddr4.
 
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New platform vs a refresh. I don't know if it means anything in terms of performance but I'd be disappointed if Zen 4 wasn't a decent bump above Raptor Lake, we will see.

Yes but intel are already decently ahead right now especially with stock single core performance.

I expect zen 4 to leapfrog that but then raptor Lake to close or match the gap.

Just my expectations. Zen 4 could deliver an amazing jump or it could be relatively "meh" overall. Who knows.
 
Soldato
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Without v-cache, i believe Zen 4 and RPL will have similar IPC, Zen 4 is completely new architecture on new node so they can achive that 26% more IPC, and if need they can release from the start v-cache versions, it will have better yield at that time, and Zen 4 will be more optimised for vertical stacking. About ddr4 part, if Zen 4 is full ddr5 then that means memory controller don't have compromises that hybrid design have, they will work at higher ddr5 speed and offer more modes, so it isn't that bad thing. I myself have plan to upgrade to next gen platform, ddr5 is future proof so higher price at start, but it will work longer so no problem for me, i will retire ddr4.

AMD will likely have a gaming focused Zen 4 replacement of the 5800X3D. Hopefully the gaming types will get behind the 6800X3D with similar vigour as they have for 5800X3D.

We might even see a few more gaming specific parts from AMD. Maybe Intel will follow with a 8c 16t chip and unified cache for the gaming market.
 
Soldato
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Don't Alderlake already have a 16% ipc advantage over zen 3 so if raptorlake can hit 10% with boost clocks at 5.5ghz then it will be right up there and this time Intel will have the advantage of cheap motherboards and DDR4.

Not sure if the Alderlake gap is that high, perhaps in some areas. I thought it was closer to like 5-10% in general?

Zen4 should have 3D Cache (which seems to give a decent uplift), plus a claimed ~25% improvement, plus Lisa remarked in the CES talk that it was running 5GHz *all core* which is huge. Isn't currently Zen 3 somewhere around ~4.5GHz all-core so potentially an ~11% increase in all-core clocks. No idea what that would translate to single-core boost either.

Not saying it will but there's the potential for Zen4 to absolutely wipe the floor with Raptor Lake. But who knows, we'll see by the end of the year when hopefully both are released :)
 
Soldato
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Yes but intel are already decently ahead right now especially with stock single core performance.

I expect zen 4 to leapfrog that but then raptor Lake to close or match the gap.

Just my expectations. Zen 4 could deliver an amazing jump or it could be relatively "meh" overall. Who knows.

I can’t see how Intel scale past 8-10 cores while using a ring bus design on its current node roadmap.
 
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Not sure if the Alderlake gap is that high, perhaps in some areas. I thought it was closer to like 5-10% in general?

Zen4 should have 3D Cache (which seems to give a decent uplift), plus a claimed ~25% improvement, plus Lisa remarked in the CES talk that it was running 5GHz *all core* which is huge. Isn't currently Zen 3 somewhere around ~4.5GHz all-core so potentially an ~11% increase in all-core clocks. No idea what that would translate to single-core boost either.

Not saying it will but there's the potential for Zen4 to absolutely wipe the floor with Raptor Lake. But who knows, we'll see by the end of the year when hopefully both are released :)

I think you are underestimating alder Lake.

In a similar price segment the 12700k wallops the 5800x and even beats the more expensive 5900x in things we commonly use to measure performance.

In cinebench r23 its 40% faster in multi and 21% faster in single (source - https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i7-12700k-alder-lake-12th-gen/6.html)
 
Soldato
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I think you are underestimating alder Lake.

In a similar price segment the 12700k wallops the 5800x and even beats the more expensive 5900x in things we commonly use to measure performance.

In cinebench r23 its 40% faster in multi and 21% faster in single (source - https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i7-12700k-alder-lake-12th-gen/6.html)

I'm not sure underestimating is the right word, I definitely haven't gone through all the benchmarks to check but was trying to show a more general/average number.

If we're cherry-picking benchmarks though I'd like to point to SuperPi, where the 5800X is 6% faster than the 12700K in Single-Threaded performance. \o/ :p (Source - https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i7-12700k-alder-lake-12th-gen/5.html)
 
Caporegime
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I'm not sure underestimating is the right word, I definitely haven't gone through all the benchmarks to check but was trying to show a more general/average number.

If we're cherry-picking benchmarks though I'd like to point to SuperPi, where the 5800X is 6% faster than the 12700K in Single-Threaded performance. \o/ :p (Source - https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i7-12700k-alder-lake-12th-gen/5.html)

If you look at a general overview though, AI, rendering etc it's much, much faster.

Game benchmarks close the overall percentage back, due to the nature of them, but it's clear to me on most modern cpu benches the 12700k is a lot faster than the 5800x.
 
Soldato
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If you look at a general overview though, AI, rendering etc it's much, much faster.

Game benchmarks close the overall percentage back, due to the nature of them, but it's clear to me on most modern cpu benches the 12700k is a lot faster than the 5800x.

For what it's worth I was specifically talking about ST performance, which in most benches is somewhat hard to isolate.

Games are to some extent one of those, given the E-core implementation a 12700K is almost certainly being treated largely as an 8-core CPU (e.g. just P-Cores), and those show a much narrower margin.

Of course where Alder-lake does excel is in non-latency sensitive MT workloads, e.g. AI and Rendering, where the 12700K does absolutely destroy a 5800X obviously.

Zen4 seemingly has no answer to those workloads unless they up core counts at various points.
 
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