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Raytracing - Would you buy in to it now?

Discussion in 'Graphics Cards' started by Gregster, 13 Dec 2020.

  1. Pottsey

    Mobster

    Joined: 29 May 2006

    Posts: 4,640

    It is not speculation, it is fact that proves what you said is wrong. Metro Exodus Enhanced is an entirely new separate game that is coming out rebuilt on a new engine built around Ray Tracing and has a Ray Tracing as a minimum spec.

    Same for the Stay in the Light both are examples that prove you are incorrect in saying RT will only be an afterthought. There is no way anyone can look at Metro Exodus Enhanced or Stay in the Ligh and say Ray Tracing is just an afterthought.
     
    Last edited: 18 Feb 2021
  2. Phixsator

    Mobster

    Joined: 10 Oct 2012

    Posts: 4,016

    No, not if the so-called next-gen hardware is lacking next-gen performance in some areas. Silly would be to try to dismiss other people's opinions just because they don't align with yours. I'm not saying Nvidia shouldn't work on RT, I'm just not very impressed with the current implementation and its performance.

    2 games out of the 100's released every year is hardly proof of anything. Look at Hardware physx and games like borderlands 2.. By your argument that game and the few others like the batman titles would have been enough to say that hardware PhysX with that sort of effects is here to stay and look at it now?? pretty much dead in the water. Sad really, cause some of the early PhysX demo's looked rather cool.
     
    Last edited: 18 Feb 2021
  3. weldon855

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 21 Oct 2013

    Posts: 1,806

    Location: Ild

    Re releasing a game with an updated version based around ray tracing 2 years later is kind close to the definition of an afterthought to be fair.

    Actually the after thought was probably adding ray tracing to the first version.
    This is more of an after after thought :D
     
  4. Wrinkly

    Mobster

    Joined: 31 Aug 2013

    Posts: 2,930

    Location: Scotland

    It's not just Nvidia that is working on ray tracing. AMD, Apple, Intel, Microsoft, Sony, etc. are all investing in ray tracing. Performance wise, next gen tech has always had a hit on performance.

    I have no problem admitting that I feel ray tracing naysayers should be thrown into the same basket beside the flat earthers :D
     
  5. FoxEye

    Caporegime

    Joined: 17 Feb 2006

    Posts: 28,285

    Location: Cornwall

    Are we allowed to say that the games featuring RT thus far have been extremely underwhelming, and that people are perfectly justified in their lack of excitement, due to the pretty awful examples of RT we have seen to date?
     
  6. Wrinkly

    Mobster

    Joined: 31 Aug 2013

    Posts: 2,930

    Location: Scotland

    Say what you want, just as I do. That's what the forum is for.

    As far as ray tracing goes, I'd agree with you that much of what we have seen so far has been poorly implemented. Some of this is due to Turing's performance, but in general it's been down to the tech being added in as an after thought. We have also had some good examples, while @Rroff has done a great job attempting to educate with the Quake 2 RTX engine.
     
  7. Grim5

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 6 Feb 2019

    Posts: 8,441

    Rayvtracing only games release, and fans call rayvtracing an after thought lol
     
  8. Johnny Silverhand

    Gangster

    Joined: 24 Dec 2020

    Posts: 229

    Location: Sussex

    Gaytracing is not a deal breaker. Games can still look incredible without it. We're still a couple of years away from it being "standard". :)
     
  9. Gregster

    Caporegime

    Joined: 24 Sep 2008

    Posts: 38,292

    Location: Essex innit!

    I love the RT reflections, lighting and shadows. Currently playing Metro Exodus and couldn't really say it is good in that but looking forward to the free upgrade. I understand most of it can be pre-baked in and look just as good but a game engine built from the ground up with RT in mind will do a much better job. Unfortunately, newer game engines take time to make and are very expensive, so for now, it is a case of add on's being the way we get RT.
     
  10. Pottsey

    Mobster

    Joined: 29 May 2006

    Posts: 4,640

    Just how I see it. :D 30 to 40 games and Ray Tracing only games yet its an afterthought! Ray Tracing use seems to be accelerating.
     
  11. willhub

    Capodecina

    Joined: 3 Jan 2006

    Posts: 23,888

    Location: Chadderton, Oldham

    It would be disappointing if any future game release occurs without raytracing.
     
  12. Klunt Bumskrint

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 10 Nov 2012

    Posts: 1,954

    Location: Daventry

    When hardware T & L came out people moaned about fps drops , about part of the gpu being taken up with a "gimmick".
    I love RT. More please.
     
  13. willhub

    Capodecina

    Joined: 3 Jan 2006

    Posts: 23,888

    Location: Chadderton, Oldham

    RT performance when you factor in DLSS is about on par with non RT/DLSS performance really. DLSS makes ray tracing playable, a very highly intensive workload in its infancy made usable due to advanced image upscaling technology.
     
  14. Gregster

    Caporegime

    Joined: 24 Sep 2008

    Posts: 38,292

    Location: Essex innit!

    Spot on that. No RT = 60 fps. RT = 30 fps. RT + DLSS = 60 fps. Better visuals and no loss of frames.
     
  15. nvidiamd

    Hitman

    Joined: 20 Nov 2020

    Posts: 941

    There is no RT only game. There is RT only update to a game that was released two years ago. A game that can be played pretty well without RT. And yes, right now it is an afterthought.
    Unless the RT capable cards market share goes at least over 20%, no one will make a RT only game because there are no money to be made from selling it.
     
  16. willhub

    Capodecina

    Joined: 3 Jan 2006

    Posts: 23,888

    Location: Chadderton, Oldham

    Considering older games are getting patched with RT completely destroys the whole "afterthought" argument.
     
  17. nvidiamd

    Hitman

    Joined: 20 Nov 2020

    Posts: 941

    But that is the definition of afterthought. :D
     
  18. Pottsey

    Mobster

    Joined: 29 May 2006

    Posts: 4,640

    There are two RT only games I listed. As for Metro this isn’t just an update patch applied to the old game. Its more then just a new feature patched into an old game. Its not like you can apply the update to the old game because its more than that.

    They are rebuilding and remaking the game as a new standalone game on a major engine change that cannot run without RT. If you buy the new game then you cannot play it without RT. You cannot apply the patch to the old game. While I agree at first there wont be many RT only games. What I was trying to get across is its clear with the way RT is being used its more then just an afterthought. Sure in some cases its only an after thought. But in cases like this new game build, its built from the ground up with RT in mind and will not run without RT.

    Building a standalone game with a new engine based around RT from the ground up is not how I define afterthought. Also this geos back to DaveGW who was using afterthought as its just tagged on near the end of development, cannot be asrsed to implement. Looking at Metro and Stay in the Light this is clearly not the case. I am not arguing that no games have RT as an afterthought as some clearly do. But RT is slowly becoming more then just an afterthought with examples where its not just an afterthought. I just don't get how people can say that will never happen when it already has happened in games.
     
  19. willhub

    Capodecina

    Joined: 3 Jan 2006

    Posts: 23,888

    Location: Chadderton, Oldham

    Fair enough, but an afterthought isn't a bad thing. It may well have been added later, but thought of later, I'm pretty sure devs would have considered it, adding ray tracing into older games now shows how ray tracing is catching on, if it's completely worthless they wouldn't bother.

    Metro Exodus and its ray tracing only game, that had ray tracing already they've just improved on it.
     
  20. Wrinkly

    Mobster

    Joined: 31 Aug 2013

    Posts: 2,930

    Location: Scotland

    Quake 2 RTX and Minecraft RTX. What other ray tracing only games are out there?

    Stay in the Light is marked as comming soon.