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Rembrandt 6nm APUs - Will they use DDR5 RAM?

g67575

g67575

g67575

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Also, could they be the first processors designed for the AM5 CPU socket?

Will there be a higher power equivalent desktop CPU released on 6nm?

My overall impression is that AMD's schedule has been complicated by the (presumably) late / delayed launch of Zen3D desktop CPUs.

The new APUs could be the most interesting thing we find out about at CES in January, and possibly the AM5 CPU socket...

Possibly a roadmap from AMD here, would be interesting to know if it was authored by them:
https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cp..._roadmap_leaks_-_ryzen_6000_mobile_detailed/1

Seems to go into some detail, even describing the socket type of each APU product.

There's a video here, where AMD discusses a new platform in 2022, with DDR5 and PCIe 5:
https://youtu.be/yE9PsKWYYXA?t=424

He also mentions "cooler compatibility with existing AM4 coolers", which implies a desktop platform (not a mobile or 2 in 1 platform).

What's interesting is he doesn't specifically confirm a Zen 4 desktop CPU in 2022 (but does mention a Zen 4 'product' in 2022, which could just refer to the announced Genoa server CPUs).
 
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I'm thinking of telling my dad to wait until AM5 boards are available in 2022 before building a new system (previously I advised building an Alder Lake DDR5 system). Either way, it looks like the platform will support DDR5 RAM and should involve a die shrink to 6nm EUV. Seems pretty likely these boards will be compatible with Zen 4 desktop CPUs too, whenever they release.

Hopefully, AMD will clarify at CES if the CPU socket is AM5 in 2022, or something else.

Handheld console with new AMD SOC launch delayed until 4th Jan (CES date), suspicious... Link:https://overclock3d.net/news/system...system_launch_until_after_amd_s_ces_keynote/1

It does seem to imply that new APUs may soon be ready.
 
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Journey said:
Release cadence is due for mobile parts, so no socket AM5, just APU's for laptops that will later be released as the desktop equivalent. Basically no speculation required.

You should also probably read the title if the article you liked, it even says mobile roadmap. :cry:
Click to expand...

'Release cadence' is not due for a new desktop CPU socket sometime in 2022? This is suggested by the video, where they discuss a new platform featuring DDR5 RAM support in 2022. Sept. 2022 will be 6 years on from AM4's launch.

I posted the roadmap as an afterthought really (to at least show that mobile APUs are likely coming next year), it's not even a complete one (or likely to be from AMD themselves).
 
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I didn't bash the video, I said before that they were releasing a new platform, but not necessarily Zen 4 desktop in the same year, which most seemed to assume would be happening. Why bring this up now?

Whether AM5 comes releases with an improvement on Zen 3, or Zen 4, doesn't matter too much to me (just considering whether to advise building a 12th gen Intel system or not in 2022), DDR5 support and future upgrade capability is important though.
 
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I think we will see new APUs (with RDNA2 graphics) in the first half of 2022, with a new desktop platform with DDR5 support in the 2nd half of 2022...
 
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All we have to go on so far for the new APUs is rumour (which suggests these aren't based on Zen 4), but if true I think this increases the likelihood of new desktop CPUs based on the same Zen architecture and fabrication technology later in the year. In addition, AMD mentioned a new DDR5 platform (presumably for desktops) in 2022.

Another point in favour of a new desktop platform, is the limitation of 142W on the AM4 socket, pretty low compared to the max power output of Intel CPUs. Source here:
https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/reviews/amd-ryzen-9-5950x-5900x-zen-3-review/4

With all rumours, there's always plenty of room for doubt though...

Zen3D looks like it will be the swansong for the AM4 platform in the 1st half of 2022.

We probably don't have long to wait for details about the APUs though, so hold tight chaps.
 
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Well we seem to be in agreement on an AM5/new AMD DDR5 platform in 2022. My view has changed a bit, as I've heard more about the possibility of new APUs for release next year.
 
Yes, no reason to think they won't. They won't be 4ghz chips (limiting to 4ghz is just useful to compare products of different clock speeds, plus they don't have to commit themselves to higher clocks in advance). I think they will probably have similar clock speeds to the Ryzen 5000 series. AMD don't need a lot of cores to compete with Alder Lake in tasks like games.

8 is all Alder Lake needs, the E-Cores make only a small performance difference. The prototype Zen3D chip had 12 cores. Performance shown here:
https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/od7uMMTWeNWpUxNzikPa5Y-970-80.png

So, I'd expect a 10-15% performance boost in in Directx12/Vulkan games, maybe less in the majority of DX11 games (maybe just 5% in some).

It's a useful upgrade for people with B550/B570 AM4 boards, lots of people don't seem willing to upgrade their whole system to DDR5/Alder Lake. Don't know about support for older AM4 chipsets though.

I think one factor maybe some have missed with Zen3D is the difficulty of adding compatibility to older boards, it's presumably difficult to update the firmware of tons of older AM4 chipsets to add support for Zen3D. If they don't get this right, the launch could be seen as a failure, so I think that's why it didn't release in 2021. It wouldn't surprise me if they have to remove support of some older (less common) CPU models.
 
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For Zen3D, I think it will be 10-15% gain on average in DX12/Vulkan games. AMD will put always put in some high outliers in the promotional material, that's just good marketing. It's only extra L3 cache, only so far that can help with performance. Maybe more L2/L1 cache would boost performance further in the future.
 
That's interesting. Sounds like it could be possible with TSMC's 5nm or Intel's 4/3 process technologies, as these would both offer around double the transistor density of existing AMD/Intel CPUs.

I guess they'd need to analyse if the benefits are worth the additional cost, which new architecture designs could help to reduce.
 
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I had a look on Wikipedia, and it looks like each AMD microarchitecture generation has included both CPUs (desktop) and APUs since Excavator in 2015 (followed by each Zen generation). Before 2015, it varied a bit with each generation. Link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excavator_(microarchitecture)#Processors

So, if AMD announce 6nm APUs on the 4th of January, it seems a fairly safe bet that there will be 6nm desktop CPUs of the same generation released too.
 
I suppose if they do some desktop CPUs on 6nm EUV, at least they will probably be able to get higher clock speeds out of Zen 3, without increasing the temps much. Maybe 5ghz+ for the 8 core and above models. A 10% increase in clock speeds should be enough for Zen 3 to compete with Alder Lake, AMD isn't that far behind. Might need slightly higher clocks than this though, it's hard to say. AMD has the advantage on core count so, you'd expect that to put them ahead, if could manage 5ghz or above on all CPU cores.

Clock speed is unfortunately still one of the main weaknesses of AMD's Ryzen CPUs, vs Intel. With the Ryzen 5950X, the average clock frequencies with all threads enabled can fall to 4.4ghz with SSE instructions and 4.2Ghz on AVX:
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-5950x/21.html

I wonder if this improves with SMT / 'Hyperthreading' disabled?

Combine that with a better DDR5 memory controller than Alder Lake, and they'd be onto a winner.

I think they have some catching up to do in this area, 3733mhz is the current 'infinity fabric limit' on DDR4, correct?

Ideally, they'd aim for at least DDR5 4800Mhz RAM (dual channel), with the memory controller running at 1:1, to see an improvement over DDR4.
 
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I think they will quickly hit diminishing returns by increasing DDR5 frequency if they can't have a more linear increase in CAS latency, compared to say DDR4000 modules at CL19.
 
Very exciting stuff:

AMD-Ryzen-5800X3D-Raphael-Zen4.jpg


Will watch the whole thing in a bit.

It's exceeded my expectations tbh (thought it would take longer for Zen 4), Intel is in trouble in 2022. Although, Zen 4 /AM5 might not release until November / December 2022

Agree, can close this thread iyw, pretty obvious what I should recommend for my dad now.
 
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