Reoffending rates - perhaps the spinless left were right after all...

Panzerbjorn said:
Ken Clarke was on Radio 4 a month-or-so ago suggesting that the solution was to put young, first-time offenders into prison for six months to a year to 'scare' them into not wanting to reoffend.

My own views are still forming in this area: I can see some logic behind KC's idea, but I can also see some issues with it.

Are there any statistics to show the effectiveness of young-offenders institutes or should we scrap them and send everyone to prison proper?
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I always thought things like this wouldn't work because criminals don't decide to commit crimes based on whether or not they think they can "take" the punishment.

I thought criminals commit crimes because they honestly don't think they'll get caught - therefore harsher punishments won't have the desired effects.

At least, someone on here posted that opinion in a similar debate a long time ago and it seems reasonable to me :p
 
shoes said:
'ooman rights, probably. We must respect their human rights.

Much like criminals respect the human rights of the victims...oh wait
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Yea exactly for any crime that involved a violent act against a victim - the criminal should be physically punished regularly while incarcerated. Cane or strap etc... make sure you treat any wounds and they heal well.... so you can beat them again.
 
fez said:
What type of system would you say we have. To me it just seems like a bit of a soft system with little to recommend it either way.

We don't rehab criminals and we don't make it horrible for them to be in jail either.
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What we have is a very vengeful system when you get right down to it. The actual stay in prison may be reasonably comfortable, with televisions in common rooms and whatnot, but very little effort is made to actually help these people get back on the straight and narrow. And when they get out, there's no way for them to earn an honest living since they have to declare convictions and explain why they haven't been working for the past X years. No way to earn an honest living -> they have to earn a dishonest one. Thus, ex-cons re-offend. And it's not only the jobs thing. If a person feels like society has failed them, they feel no obligation to abide by their end of the social contract.
 
JBod said:
Yea exactly for any crime that involved a violent act against a victim - the criminal should be physically punished regularly while incarcerated. Cane or strap etc... make sure you treat any wounds and they heal well.... so you can beat them again.
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I've always been a fan of the idea of leaving them family of the victim (along with the victim) in a room with the convicted for five minutes - during which time the law can turn a blind eye.
 
shoes said:
I've always been a fan of the idea of leaving them family of the victim (along with the victim) in a room with the convicted for five minutes - during which time the law can turn a blind eye.
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Haven't they trialled (with some success) a system where the victim's family and the perpetrator are brought together so that the family can effectively ask the culprit why they did what they did?

From memory, it has helped the family get closure [I hate that term] and also makes the offender realise there are more consequences to their actions than just the immediate incident.

I seem to remember one woman who had gone through this process (as a victim) saying that when they first met she thought she was going to attack the felon but by the end of the process she just felt pity for them.

Of course, this is probably to namby pamby left wing for you. :p
 
Panzerbjorn said:
Haven't they trialled (with some success) a system where the victim's family and the perpetrator are brought together so that the family can effectively ask the culprit why they did what they did?

From memory, it has helped the family get closure [I hate that term] and also makes the offender realise there are more consequences to their actions than just the immediate incident.

I seem to remember one woman who had gone through this process (as a victim) saying that when they first met she thought she was going to attack the felon but by the end of the process she just felt pity for them.

Of course, this is probably to namby pamby left wing for you. :p
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No, this seems reasonable to me. It would be interesting to see it in action, but I think you'd end up with a lot of chavs sat there kissing their teeth, being the hard man giving it the 'yeah whatevers init bruv'.
 
Killerkebab said:
I always thought things like this wouldn't work because criminals don't decide to commit crimes based on whether or not they think they can "take" the punishment.

I thought criminals commit crimes because they honestly don't think they'll get caught - therefore harsher punishments won't have the desired effects.

At least, someone on here posted that opinion in a similar debate a long time ago and it seems reasonable to me :p
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This has always been my point of view. Deterrence is the key, which means a more visible police force, more PCSOs etc.

As for prisons being a good solution. No. The report in the OP even states that re-offending was highest in those who'd served prison sentences. The only real use of prisons is removing the most dangerous criminals from society, and in its present state does little to prepare them fro re-integration with society. After spending several years surrounded by other felons where fear and domination are a way of life, how can you be expected to just walk out and think like a normal person.

Labelling theory states that the CJS only further alienates those already on the margins of society, and identifying individuals as criminals with harsh sentences only cements their path in the wrong direction.

I do think there should be a punitive side to justice, especially for violent crimes, but I think efforts to rehabilitate should come first and foremost.
 
SlyReaper said:
If a person feels like society has failed them, they feel no obligation to abide by their end of the social contract.
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I honestly couldn't give a flying **** whether they think society has failed them. If they think that, they are idiots.

Where has it failed them? Giving them a world class education. Free healthcare regardless of whether you have ever worked. Social benefits. Freedom to do as we please within reason. A stable country.

Yeah, society has failed them.
 
Devrij said:
This has always been my point of view. Deterrence is the key, which means a more visible police force, more PCSOs etc.

As for prisons being a good solution. No. The report in the OP even states that re-offending was highest in those who'd served prison sentences. The only real use of prisons is removing the most dangerous criminals from society, and in its present state does little to prepare them fro re-integration with society. After spending several years surrounded by other felons where fear and domination are a way of life, how can you be expected to just walk out and think like a normal person.

Labelling theory states that the CJS only further alienates those already on the margins of society, and identifying individuals as criminals with harsh sentences only cements their path in the wrong direction.

I do think there should be a punitive side to justice, especially for violent crimes, but I think efforts to rehabilitate should come first and foremost.
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Three strike system works for me. Third strike - thrown in a cold, damp, dark room, the keys are destroyed and you are fed bread and water until you die. Fire in the prison? Tough **** - bet you wish you weren't such a scumbag now, eh?
 
shoes said:
Three strike system works for me. Third strike - thrown in a cold, damp, dark room, the keys are destroyed and you are fed bread and water until you die. Fire in the prison? Tough **** - bet you wish you weren't such a scumbag now, eh?
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Yeah because that three strikes rule in the US is so fair and works?

It's stupid, you get people being thrown in jail for life for speeding just because they have two previous convictions. The three strikes rule is silly.
 
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