Report a shady employer?

Soldato
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You could always liberate some laptops on your way out ;)

Haha I have a friend who took that to the next level when the company owner shafted everyone and did a runner (well, tried to do a runner, he eventually got caught and sent to prison).

But when the workers found out they literally took van loads of stock home to sell on ebay. There was absolutely nothing left in the warehouse by the end of the week, all the forklifts and machinery went too, even the furniture. My friend made quite a lot of cash selling it all, he had a double garage stuffed floor to ceiling of "liberated" goods :p
 
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Soldato
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Do you have any proof that this is absolutely going on?

A lot of keyboard warriors in here (who I assume are very young) are advising you to go gung-ho, but what you should do is collect evidence, then contact the relevant authorities, only if the evidence you have points to some wrong-doing.

In saying this, the best people to do the reporting are the employees themselves, not a "do gooder", who may not be aware of all the facts.

There are ALWAYS 2 sides to every story and you should first hear the employer's side of the story, as part of your evidence gathering.

Given that these young workers are working 48+ hours per week, makes me think that things can't be as bad as things are being made out. I mean think logically here, if I have not been paid for 2-3 months, why would I then put in a 48 hour week? I wouldn't even turn up to work! The story of the bad empoyer makes no sense at all.
 
Caporegime
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18 Mar 2008
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32,742
Do you have any proof that this is absolutely going on?

A lot of keyboard warriors in here (who I assume are very young) are advising you to go gung-ho, but what you should do is collect evidence, then contact the relevant authorities, only if the evidence you have points to some wrong-doing.

In saying this, the best people to do the reporting are the employees themselves, not a "do gooder", who may not be aware of all the facts.

There are ALWAYS 2 sides to every story and you should first hear the employer's side of the story, as part of your evidence gathering.

Given that these young workers are working 48+ hours per week, makes me think that things can't be as bad as things are being made out. I mean think logically here, if I have not been paid for 2-3 months, why would I then put in a 48 hour week? I wouldn't even turn up to work! The story of the bad empoyer makes no sense at all.

Have you been around anyone <30 years old lately?

They are easily manipulated.
 
Soldato
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Yorkshire and proud of it!
A lot of keyboard warriors in here (who I assume are very young) are advising you to go gung-ho, but what you should do is collect evidence, then contact the relevant authorities, only if the evidence you have points to some wrong-doing.

Sadly, I probably can't call myself "very young" anymore, so you're wrong there. Several of us have suggested getting together what evidence they can, but realistically a lot of evidence wont be easy to get. Some statements from employees and ex-employees may be the best they can do. That's why people are suggesting the Inland Revenue. They DO have powers to actually gather that evidence and can be pretty aggressive doing so. The sooner the OP gets them on the employer's tail, the more successful they'll be.

And I don't think "keyboard warriors" is fair. You don't know what people commenting in this thread have or haven't done in their own bad work experiences or encounters with bad / criminal behaviour.

In saying this, the best people to do the reporting are the employees themselves, not a "do gooder", who may not be aware of all the facts.

Sound advice if the OP were a judge in the case, but they're not appointed to determine innocence or guilt, they're talking about making the people who do that aware of what is going on. Honestly, I wish we had a few more "do gooders" around. Most people turn a blind eye to wrong-doing.

There are ALWAYS 2 sides to every story and you should first hear the employer's side of the story, as part of your evidence gathering.

They have been told about the situation by their friends and people they know. That seems to be sufficient to them to believe this is happening. Again, you are putting the OP in the role of prosecution. They are not and they are not trying to be. They're in the role of sounding the alarm. I've seen work circumstances like this. They're not good and being told by people you know in that circumstances is enough for one to believe it. What other side to the story do you expect from things like months without pay or excessive working hours? You can hardly expect the OP to go to the employer and say "I'm thinking of shopping you to the authorities, but I wanted to hear counter-evidence first." Be realistic.

Given that these young workers are working 48+ hours per week, makes me think that things can't be as bad as things are being made out.

Isn't working 48+ hours per week a sign that things are? I mean I've worked much longer hours than that for periods but still, few young people raised in the UK are going to be doing that without pressure to do so.

I mean think logically here, if I have not been paid for 2-3 months, why would I then put in a 48 hour week? I wouldn't even turn up to work! The story of the bad empoyer makes no sense at all.

Firstly, it doesn't have to be the same people in both anecdotes - some people are putting in 48+ hours per week. Some people haven't been paid for over two months. Could be different people - it's your assumption that they're not. But I'm also going to point out that it's very plausible. Maybe you wouldn't turn up for work, but a lot of people will so long as they're promised "sorry - lost your timesheet / didn't seem to go through / missed this month's because of when you started / you have to work a month in advance here / I'll make sure you get it next month". You'll find plenty of people who'll stick it out especially if they've already done the work and think quitting might mean they don't get the two months back pay they're already owed. Been there, heard it all before and was promised the t-shirt any day now. Honestly, for someone calling other's "keyboard warriors" I suspect you don't have a lot of recent experience with that sort of working environment. There are always people you can take advantage of. It's exclusive to the unskilled / young labour market either - I've seen more than one senior manager who continued to throw money at a busted project because of how much they'd already invested. Same principle - you're owed two month's pay and have been fed two semi-plausible excuses (one for each month). Do you jeopardize all that money by walking? Maybe you will, but you're not in the situation many of these people are and don't have their perspective or career background, probably.

I honestly see no good reasons to doubt the OP's story or even reasons why they should discount what people they know tell them is the case.
 
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wnb

wnb

Soldato
Joined
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3,983
That's nice for the employer an investigation from the Revenue:( to land on his door step in the new year. Best be positive that's it's going on and your not acting on hearsay.
 
Soldato
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Derby
That's nice for the employer an investigation from the Revenue:( to land on his door step in the new year. Best be positive that's it's going on and your not acting on hearsay.

If the company is legit then No problem. It's not difficult any more to print out reports on anything especially workers payslips, payment records to hmrc or logged hours worked for all employees. If they have made mistakes then it's on them. If it's too expensive to pay a payroll clerk then the company is in dire shape anyway. If it's been done on purpose, exploiting young labour, defrauding Hmrc and paying for his lifestyle at the expense of others then they deserve to be shopped.
 
Soldato
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23,304
Have you been around anyone <30 years old lately?

They are easily manipulated.

Sad but true, but I'd say it's mostly people in their early 20s and younger that are worst. It's as if the current 30 years olds were the last ones to actually get a good education and know when they are being taken for a ride :/
 
Soldato
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Yorkshire and proud of it!
Sad but true, but I'd say it's mostly people in their early 20s and younger that are worst. It's as if the current 30 years olds were the last ones to actually get a good education and know when they are being taken for a ride :/

Aside from the possibility of educational standards falling (did I say "possibility" ? :/ ), there's also the question of life circumstances. In thirty years there has been a substantial shift in unskilled labour away from full employment to temporary and part-time which makes such abuse much easier to get away with and harder to challenge by employees. Also, house prices and rental prices have continued to rise even higher. That both puts younger people at an even worse position to negotiate / challenge and also means that many younger people are trapped living with their parents and thus, ironically, better able to handle delays in payment etc. because they're not going to be evicted. It sounds like the two factors are contradictory but they're actually not. The pressures just manifest in different ways. It's not only a question of experience and education, but of worse circumstances. IMO.
 
Soldato
OP
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Non standard hours, long shifts and working longer than the EWTD aren't illegal (I would actually love to get more than 48hrs), neither is late payment of wages. Only thing definitely illegal is the tax fraud, however it sounds like your going off hearsay here?

I was under the impression that you had to sign a waiver of sorts when you work over 48 hours? I was also under the impression that the EWTD or Employment law had some sort of governance on notice of shifts or shift changes, how many days worked in a row as well as break periods? They not not be 'illegal' as such to breach them, but would have thought there should be some sort of consequences?

This is more than hearsay by the way, but I'm not willing to put the full details on a public forum since it's not me that's directly involved.

Do you have any proof that this is absolutely going on?

A lot of keyboard warriors in here (who I assume are very young) are advising you to go gung-ho, but what you should do is collect evidence, then contact the relevant authorities, only if the evidence you have points to some wrong-doing.


Surely the only evidence would be the employee's version of events? As far as I know there are no payslips, contracts of employments or anything. The tax office have already confirmed for one worker there are no records of employment for him, but then there's no evidence he was being employed in the first place?

I would assume if the HMRC would be to investigate, they would start off by looking at any records they have from the business, and investigate further if it warranted it? They wouldn't automatically go in all guns blazing? The website even says:

"Report someone to HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) if you think they’re evading tax.

Don’t try to find out more about the tax evasion or let anyone know you’re making a report."
 
Caporegime
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England
Yes and I'd be willing to bet they probably have signed a waiver and are on a zero hours arrangement, people are entitled to breaks but don't have to go on a break.
 
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