Responsible people aren't having kids

There is another problem here in that woman who wait to have children are not having them at the best time biologically speaking. A woman approaching 40 is much more likely to have a child with birth defects or to suffer infertility.

The age comment is very true, for instance with Down's Syndrome, the probability increases very rapidly over the age of 40;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Trisomy21_graph.jpg

There are some interesting theories about having children later leading to longer lifespans. For instance, if every woman had children as late as possible, then it is postulated that the we would live longer (on average, and at a faster increasing rate than now).

http://www.jstor.org/pss/3401410

A variety of interesting arguments also exist about whether fertility treatment is beneficial for the long-term fecundity of the population.
 
Are you eligible for tax credits? Would get you 70% of your childcare costs back.

And how do you think this happens? Maybe if you are on a low salary you can but if you are both working and earning ok money you dont get anything.

I think there should be a middle bracket for working parents. At the moment if your combined wages are over something like £30k you dont get any help with childcare costs. The bracket is something like £30k to £75k.

But I think as you are having an additional person paying tax who is paying for another person to also pay tax then surely it makes sense to try and help these people out even if it's only a little bit.
 
And how do you think this happens? Maybe if you are on a low salary you can but if you are both working and earning ok money you dont get anything.

Don't be so dismissive, it's only a thought. The wife and I both work and we get money for our childcare costs.

bloodline76 said:
I think there should be a middle bracket for working parents. At the moment if your combined wages are over something like £30k you dont get any help with childcare costs. The bracket is something like £30k to £75k.

Our combined wages are about £32k and we get childcare money.
 
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Don't be daft, the state dictating which child is worth more to society than another by refusing the small amount of child benefit for a child you had whilst on benefits - unworkable idea, you'd actually have to employ people to ensure this was enforced raising the cost.

Far more effective would simply be to scrap the system and tax less, therefor bypassing the need to employ people to check the distribution of child tax credits, child benefits etc.

PS I've just had my first child 2 weeks ago - I'd much rather have lower taxes than a paltry few quid they offer for my child. We had her because we wanted her, it's up to us to pay her way. Those on benefits should simply not get anything for kids and basic benefits raised to compensate, then those who can should be given jobs but that's an entirely different topic.


I'm not just talking about the small awarded amount for having another child but the amounts given to support that child, food, extra bills, bigger housing. There's no reason a person in receipt of benefit should be having 'more' kids if they can only afford them with support from benefits. Why should the tax payer have to pay for someone else's A) Mistake or B) Choice to have more kids. I can understand coming on to benefits with children, but not having children while on benefit.
 
Thanks for the suggestion, but I don't believe we will be eligible. My wife apparently gets some kind of childress voucher scheme through work however - how much that will be worth, I do not know.

Hmm. Things get a bit complicated if you get vouchers. It might be worth her talking to payroll to work out whether it is more cost effective to get the vouchers or to pay out of her own pocket and then recover the cost through tax credits.
 
But wasnt this a thread debating whether they should be allowed to have them at all, regardless of benefits, ala what china does restricting people to 1 child ?

No, not at all. My OP was debating the disparity in between being a hard working responsible parent and being a sponging irresponsible parent.

Person A) A responsible parent who wants a child but knows that their situation needs to be ideal. They will take time to create a good home, a good relationship and an income that can support a family of 3. The time frame in which they can have kids, and the volume of kids that they will have is greatly reduced.

Person B) An irresponsible parent who wants a child and has one, regardless of the state of their relationship, and lets the government sort out all the money and housing requirements. They have no time frame, nor a concept of volume.

My problem is that our country is being populated by Person B, because Person A is worried about the implications, and Person A has no way near the support Person B has, regardless of how beneficial Person A is to our society. Furthermore, you could argue that Person A's offspring are far more likely to be beneficial to our society due to the stability they can provide vs Person B.

So you have 50 careless Person B's having a kid for every Person A having 1. To further escalate this, we now have more individual debt than ever before. Which discourages Person A, but obviously not person B.

So we are evolving into a society that has a future full of ******* children raised by irresponsible parents, primarily because those parents are almost encouraged to have kids, because the government will support them no matter what. There is no air of personal accountability or justification. There's a safety net full of millions of people, a safety net which will soon break due to the sheer weight it holds.

It's wrong to judge the children, sure. You can't assume every one of them will grow up to be like their parents. But you also can't deny that your family influences probably shape your existence more than any other external factor in life, on average. There will always be apples that fall very far from the tree, but we're talking society-wide here.

Halting Person B from having kids is never the answer, but there needs to be some balance in rewarding. Person B needs less rewarding (for effectively doing nothing) and Person A needs more rewarding. We need balance. There's no straight forward or simple solution, otherwise it would be in place, but it's an exellent idea to discuss the matter. Especially if others have noticed the same problems, which by the look of this thread they have.
 
Thats because people are having sex and dont even realise there doing it, thats why the population is growing in chav size, on the other hand people that are aware of there own actions tend to be the sensible type that will wait till the time is right.
 
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..snip..


I explained my arguments in a clear way, I didn't insult you personally. Do you always get angered when people disagree with you? However, I did rather enjoy your raging stream of consciousness, even if it left me a tad breathless by the end!

p.s. I'm not a moron, honest :p!

your thoughts on this dont make me angry geezer, not trying to goad you too, you certainly dont make me agitated either, you make me laugh, come back when your living through it yourself, your arguments are currently based not on your own experience, which kinda renders them worthless, keep reading your stats

Not everyone has a choice to pay childcare or stay at home. If it was that simple then I think a lot more would stay at home. And not all employers allow you to change shift to accomodate nursery patterns. And if you are really unlucky your nursery wont allow you to skip payments if your child is off that day. So it can be hard to save money when you have to pay whether the child is there or not.

There have been many times when I have had to pay over £70 for a day when I didnt send my kids because I wanted to spend the day with them. I am lucky that they are a little more accomodating now and they are being a little more flexible if I arrange it in advance(six weeks) but not all give you that option.

I think once they do get past 3 as you said then it is a lot more affordable to have kids. Until then reach the "I want stage" where your parenting(Or negotiation) skills come into play ;)

youre right, not everybody has the choice over taking childcare or not, but you have the choice to have a child, if the childcare thing is unmanageable then you dont have a child, so its still a choice
no matter what your situation is, the first few years are always the hardest regarding routine and job, but its only a few years and a small price to pay for the rewards of having a family, every parent goes through it, you only have to look to your own to see
 
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