I had a nosey 'round one months ago at a dealer and came away with the same impression. It's a shame, but then Saab aren't exactly rolling in the money at the moment, so it's not exactly unexpected.[TW]Fox;17659434 said:Cheap interior plastics
It was parked in the Bullring so the interior was about all I could judge.
S60 Opinions...
- Thread starter rscosworth
- Start date
I think this might be part of the problem - people seem to think they're trying to compete with the jags and mercs, but they're not priced similarly at all.
Lets say you want a relatively high specced 4 pot diesel, a Mondeo Titanium 2.0 TDCI has a list price of 22,395. A BMW 320D M Sport will set you back £29,200. C class is about the same, E class and 5 series will be over 30k
So what goes in the middle, what if you want to spend 25~26k? That's what a reasonably specified S60 will cost, and that's what the Saab costs. While I'm in no position to say how well it compares - I dont think its fair to compare it to cars costing a good amount more.
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
I think you need to do a bit more homework because you are completely wrong.
The Saab 9-5 2.0 TTiD Vector diesel with similar power to the BMW 520d - so the comparable model - costs £28495 on the road.
The BMW 520d SE costs £28045. So before we even look at spec, it's CHEAPER than the SLOWER Saab 9-5 (Thats right, the 9-5 2.0 TTiD is over a second slower to 60 for example). But wait - the BMW has leather as standard, a must have in this class. If you want leather in your 9-5 you must pay £1450, taking the cost of your Saab 9-5 2.0 diesel to £30,000.
Thats £2000 MORE than the BMW.
There is a cheaper diesel - the 2.0 Tid - but with leather added it's the same price as the 520d and much slower and less powerful. It barely lumbers itself to 60 in less than 10 seconds, the BMW takes 7.8.
Saab SHOULD be cheaper - about £5k cheaper - but its absolutely not.
It's priced like an F10 5 Series and it's nothing like the car.
We need to bin this myth that a Saab is good value - because new, it absolutely isn't. It's outclassed and pretty much outpriced.
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In fairness I wasnt looking at power output, I was looking at what average buyers will look at - the entry level diesel engine.
Saying that, I know a 2.0TTID Aero can actually be had new for closer to 26k, I dont know what the discounts are like on ze germans.
I've always considered the scandinavians to fit in the market somewhere between premium and budget, maybe thats just me
Saying that, I know a 2.0TTID Aero can actually be had new for closer to 26k, I dont know what the discounts are like on ze germans.
I've always considered the scandinavians to fit in the market somewhere between premium and budget, maybe thats just me
Which as I've demonstrated is the same price as a 520d SE once leather is added. My point remains.
It's a company car thread - only P11D value matters surely?
Unless it blows you away to drive - I've not tried one - it's pretty much dead in the water.
It is the same price/more expensive than the BMW.
It is considerably slower than the BMW
It is less economical than the BMW
It has higher CO2 emissions than the BMW
Seriously, whats the point? I've not bothered to check E Class or A6 pricing, but you can probably swap 'BMW' for either of those if you want and it'd remain true.
Exploring the rest of the range delivers similarly hilarious conclusions. 2.8T XWD Aero. Wow that sounds good, this will be the quick one.
228g/km of CO2 and 28mpg with 0-60 in 8.5 seconds? It's worse than my now 9 year old 530i, let alone its main rival the 528i which does 0-60 in 6.4 seconds, but with 36mpg and only 182g/km of CO2. Even the 523i is quicker, more economical, more powerful with lower CO2 emissions and... cheaper even in M Sport form.
Why didnt they just let Saab die?
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Why dont they just cut the crap and have a competitive list price? They will sell hardly any of these - because it's a sub standard product drowning in a sea of excellent competition.
They've aimed this car right at BMW and Mercedes. It's almost comical how badly it compares.
The vast majority of cars like this begin life as company cars. Saab NEED the fleet market to survive.
I predict they will be gone in 5 years, and I blame this car.
Edit: I will concede to one mistake - my stats above are for the 2.0T Aero not the 2.8T. The 2.8T is much quicker, although it has a ridiculous CO2 output of 244g/km and costs almost as much as the cleaner, faster twin turbo 300bhp 535i.
They've aimed this car right at BMW and Mercedes. It's almost comical how badly it compares.
The vast majority of cars like this begin life as company cars. Saab NEED the fleet market to survive.
I predict they will be gone in 5 years, and I blame this car.
Edit: I will concede to one mistake - my stats above are for the 2.0T Aero not the 2.8T. The 2.8T is much quicker, although it has a ridiculous CO2 output of 244g/km and costs almost as much as the cleaner, faster twin turbo 300bhp 535i.
I'm reserving judgement. While I was pleasantly surprised with the interior, the thing I've always liked about Saabs (and the reason I suspect a lot of people bought them) is that they were a bit different. IMO its a fine looking car, definitely more aesthetically pleasing than the F10 from the outside, but there's nothing that unique about it. There's more than a hint of A6 in the design of that interior.
Time will tell I guess
Time will tell I guess
About 28k for a 2.0CDTi with a reasonable level of specification. So about 2k cheaper
A 2.0 CTDi 160 SE is £23810 list.
I do sometimes wonder where you get your opinions from. £5k of options on a Vauxhall isnt a 'reasonable level of specification'.
I've nothing really to add to the thread apart from it's actually been a very good read! Some good advice and interesting to see different peoples opinions on these sort of cars.
Personally if I was offered a 5 series or a Saab I wouldn't even consider the Saab.
Personally if I was offered a 5 series or a Saab I wouldn't even consider the Saab.
[TW]Fox;17663677 said:
Given you made a big deal of the cost of adding leather when comparing the Saab to the BMW, dont you think you should do the same for the Vauxhall?
The Saab is very highly specified, an SE level Insignia isnt. The price I found on the vauxhall site was for an "Elite Nav"
No, neither would I, but if I was spending my own money and could have the Saab for 26k or the BMW for 30, I'd have to give it due consideration
Why has the BMW suddenly got £2k more expensive? It is £28k not £30k.
Also whats going to be worth more in 3 years?
Whats an 07 plate 9-5 worth and whats an 07 plate 5 Series worth?
Very highly specified? It's got cloth seats!
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No private market for the Saab apart from the odd 'wealthy' purist. Fleet is needed for it & Saab to have any chance.
Only way of it being a credible alternative to the 'Establishment' in the company car market is on P11D & CO2 figures. Both of which it fails on horrendously.
Shame really as a kid I was always fond of the classic 900's. But now as a company car driver in this very segment I drive a BMW. Time moves on..
Only way of it being a credible alternative to the 'Establishment' in the company car market is on P11D & CO2 figures. Both of which it fails on horrendously.
Shame really as a kid I was always fond of the classic 900's. But now as a company car driver in this very segment I drive a BMW. Time moves on..
If we're quoting 30k figures to compare it to a 520D, I doubt it would compare! The 9-5 has tons of kit as standard