Salary of tube and train drivers - why so high?

[Hawkwind1879]

Tube. Some interesting comparisons in the story, if you care to read. I think this is why some posters are finding it hard to justify the difference (me included).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ndons-tube-drivers-and-why-are-they-striking/

Pretty obviously a biased article designed to stir up trouble. However the thing about hours is comparible to main line drivers.
,
And for good reason, would you really be happy with a driver working for more than 8 hours being in control of a 100 ton train doing up to 100 mph with hundreds of passengers?

There are limits on driver hours/shifts for good reason.

None of the other comparisons were applicable from what I could see. Driver vacancies are advertised all the time

 

[Roar87]

Pretty obviously a biased article designed to stir up trouble. However the thing about hours is comparible to main line drivers.
,
And for good reason, would you really be happy with a driver working for more than 8 hours being in control of a 100 ton train doing up to 100 mph with hundreds of passengers?

There are limits on driver hours/shifts for good reason.

None of the other comparisons were applicable from what I could see. Driver vacancies are advertised all the time

Genuinely curious, are these trains completely manually operated? I mean it surprises me that they can't be fairly automated these days.

 

[Hawkwind1879]

Most are completely manual, not sure about trains running ERTMS though or London underground anyone?

I suppose a couple of the safety systems could be considered automated, ie if the driver didn't take action train would stop on its own

 

[TS7]

The OP who clearly isn't happy that someone earns more than him for doing what he see's a lesser easy job.

Erm, what? My post clearly states that I'm not saying they shouldn't be paid these amounts but was intrigued as to what justifies these amounts given the circumstances. That intrigue remains. I have no jealousy of train drivers and you out of a page of 7 has been the only person to come to that decision based on my post :s

 

[Richeh]

Pretty obviously a biased article designed to stir up trouble. However the thing about hours is comparible to main line drivers.
,
And for good reason, would you really be happy with a driver working for more than 8 hours being in control of a 100 ton train doing up to 100 mph with hundreds of passengers?

There are limits on driver hours/shifts for good reason.

None of the other comparisons were applicable from what I could see. Driver vacancies are advertised all the time

So is anything in that article inaccurate though? Its all very well and good saying 'would you be happy...' well most can't even get the chance to find out? And if you don't want to do that job you wouldn't have to, but i'm sure for £50k a year there would probably be several thousand applicants if the jobs were open to the public who would have no issues, especially after being qualified in 16 weeks. Why become a doctor, policeman or fireman?

 

[Hawkwind1879]

So is anything in that article inaccurate though? Its all very well and good saying 'would you be happy...' well most can't even get the chance to find out? And if you don't want to do that job you wouldn't have to, but i'm sure for £50k a year there would probably be several thousand applicants if the jobs were open to the public who would have no issues, especially after being qualified in 16 weeks. Why become a doctor, policeman or fireman?

I don't know regarding tube drivers. However for mainline vacancies there are indeed thousands of applicants per vacancy! Also it's up to 1 years training just to pass out to be newly qualified.

Be interesting to know if the tube truly is closed to external vacancies though. With train operating companies if you really want to be a driver it's good to join the company as a cleaner or a guard etc because you'll have access to the internal vacancy list which is always bigger which I presume is the same for most companies. Doesn't give you an advantsge if you don't pass tge entry tests interviews though

 

[Basher]

Be interesting to know if the tube truly is closed to external vacancies though.

It is.

 

[Hawkwind1879]

Your quite right. So you'd have to join as something else at tfl if you really wanted to be a tube driver

 

[BigBoy]

London Bus driver starting salary is £23,000 and you have to deal with the public, navigate busy narrow roads and deal with diversions. I'd say that is a much tougher job.

Finally someone understands my job! Oh and I'm based in Bath not London, not quite as hectic and get paid considerably less...

Also buses don't just stop, 30mph to 0mph I need 60-80ft I could stop quicker if I wanted in hurt my passengers!

 

[MadMossy]

To sit in a dark cave full of stale air and farts and deal with other train drivers and the general public? Doesn't sound like enough to me.

About the same environment as a bus driver then, except they barely get minimum wage. Trains practically drive on their own now a days, and yet the drivers moan about having to open a door!

 

[Hawkwind1879]

About the same environment as a bus driver then, except they barely get minimum wage. Trains practically drive on their own now a days, and yet the drivers moan about having to open a door!

I could say the same about busses because they are automatics....except that would be ******** also

 

[Richeh]

I could say the same about busses because they are automatics....except that would be ******** also

And they get paid half and deal with constantly changing road situations and have to actually deal with customers continuously?

Not sure what your point was.

 

[Freefaller]

Hawkwind - That's a bit of a straw man argument really.... as is your comparison to air travel.

 

[englishpremier]

I've never understood the need the tube drivers. Surely it must be one of the easiest jobs to automate. Instead they ought have more security on the underground.

 

[Hawkwind1879]

Hawkwind - That's a bit of a straw man argument really.... as is your comparison to air travel.

I think it's a better comparison then to buses. Obvioysly not comparing it to being a pilot, but more the processes and protocols etc. Not being funny but everyone thinks they can compare buses to something they don't know anything about why can't I.?

A year at least to train a train drIver. Train could travel up to 120mph with up to 1000 passengers on board compared to a coach.

If there is an emergency on board it cannot just pull over on the side of the road. Your on the operational railway next running line could also be up to 120mph, that's great if your passengers are disembarking.

A bus or coach your driving line if sight. Train driver driving partly from route knowledge at 120mph it just does not even compare, at night, or fog

 

[Hawkwind1879]

Also train drivers will not get away with some of the driving I see from bus drivers or hgv drivers. Daily in the case of hgv drivers. Like the one who rammed my level crossing barriers

 

[David_VI]

This thread makes for good reading, has a train driver not shown up till now?

Would I annoy you all if I said it was easy or made out how hard it is?
Our pay is justified, if you think you could do the job and want to then you can apply, we're always taking on outside applicants, it's not a closed industry.

Thing is other jobs are probably not paid enough. There's also no comparison between a nurse or lift attendant and a train driver.
If I screw up I could kill over 1000 people in one go, although I suppose a lot would survive considering how tightly packed our trains are in peak times.

It'll be a long long long time before the national rail network is automated. The DLR and certain tube lines are different as they were built from scratch with that in mind. The national rail network is running mostly on a Victorian infrastructure with barely any consistency between regions or rollingstock, even on the same region!


If anyone has any questions, i'll try to answer.

Wow I think the big problem here is people do not know what a train driver does or has to contend with. And i'm sorry but his responsibility is reflected in the pay. I had no idea before joining the railway either

Hey man what grade are you in? Nice there is another railwayman here !

 

[David_VI]

The rail industry might have adopted a lot of safety protocols from the airline industry, but i can't see how you can say it's similar.

Trains are guided by a rail network, even at junctions someone at a control unit (or might even be automated now), will adjust the junction for the trains relevant route. All the driver needs to do is slow the speed down to the limit and wait till you've passed through. Drivers may have to spend lots of time concentrating, but when the only movement is stop and go (i don't think trains can reverse?) people are of course going to ask what justifies the high pay.

Yeah you have to slow yourself down, but you have to remember by how much... there isn't one size fits all on our network, some points at 15mph, some 25mph, some 35mph, some 40mph and some 70mph... We even have one 70mph set of points amongst a lot of 40mphs! It's a nightmare.
Stopping can take quite some time and sometimes there's little room for error.
The job is mentally draining. I've just done 9 days consecutively, doing lates and I've just had Sunday 'off' so I can move onto earlies on Monday, starting between 0400-0700 with it being different each day. This is without overtime, a standard part of the roster.
Could I use Sunday for quality time with my family and other half? Not really, considering I got in at 0300 Sunday and i'm starting at 0500 Monday.

Probably driving at 100 at night, unfavourable weather conditions, So possible low adhesion on tracks. You've got 1000 people on your train and you can't just stop like a bus. So you need to know all your stopping points from memory, stations, speed changes etc on top of anything extra ordinary ie what if a tree on the line? Your not concentrating?

100mph at night, in the fog with bad rail conditions That's when you clench your... when you put the brake on and the speedo drops to 0 then fluctuates up and down but you're still doing over 80mph, with the wheels just spinning! Terrifying.

I've had moments when my concentration has drifted and i've realised I just dodged potentially losing my job. For example your mind goes elsewhere at the wrong time and you lose your bearings... Was that XX bridge, or is that XX bridge? where am I now? Oh that tree looks familiar! Sh.....brakes!
Or potentially forgetting the signal you passed a mile ago because you've just stopped at a station and had to deal with opening/closing doors and passengers... The risk of you leaving and taking full power forgetting you'll have a red signal around the corner is huge.

But that's what keeps you on your toes !


I absolutely love my job though.

 

[David_VI]

delete, posting error

 

[Richeh]

Ok so if we set aside train drivers for the moment.....would you consider tube drivers overpaid, as judging from what you say quite a lot of what you do does not apply to them? And assuming the article linked above isn't inaccurate it is up to 16 weeks training.