What about pilots? Planes can pretty much fly themselves but still require a pilot right?
dowie;30497447 said:
I still think that is pretty naive - it is less complicated than driverless cars and they're already a reality. In the case of driverless cars you've got other road users to avoid. In the case of any particular rail network you can ensure all trains are linked via the same system.
Are driverless cars really that near? Just because there are other road users doesn't mean it's more complicated than rail. I'm sure I read that driverless cars don't got very fast yet and still require someone just in case?
I think it's explained very well here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlik..._we_are_coming_very_close_to_fully_automatic/
Freefaller;30498040 said:
Indeed. And there in lines the problem, there are different signalling systems, ERTMS is the European rail traffic management, and it has been percolating into UK rail, but there are also lots of different standards such as Automatic Warning System (AWS) / Train Protection Warning System (TPWS) - different lines use different signalling/warning systems I believe (I'm very happy to be proved wrong as I may have misread this). I think a lot of the train operators use different levels of ECTS (European Train Control System).
There is also Communications Based Train Control (CBTC) which is a different type of train control... so if you have a train going from one line to another line, it either has to be able to interface with ALL of these, or in the UK we need to adopt 1 unique signalling/communication system.
It is so frustrating - a battle that has been on going in he rail industry for a while - and one that is not going to be resolved any time soon.
We need automation - it will allow trains to run closer together (i.e. more frequent trains, especially in places like the tube), and self regulate so no more stopping inside a tunnel or in the middle of nowhere for no reason, allow better prediction/management of train capacity and allow for better planning. Furthermore, with IoT/sensors and so on, remote condition monitoring and so on, it'll make maintenance and so on much easier to do.
The infrastructure however, is just no ready for it. The agenda is there - the government are aware of the issues/and the need for it... there are a lot of blockers to this, one of which are the unions.
For the most part the UK is still using the same signalling system it used at the birth of signalling, we're talking 100+ years. The way of controlling it has changed, rather than signal boxes all over the place with one guy controlling a small section we have large boxes that cover huge areas, with lot's of workstations controlled by one signaller each. For example Norwich to London Liverpool Street is controlled by just 2 physical signal boxes!
But on the ground it's the same as it always was. One train in one section at one time.
You just have different safety systems which have been added on through the years, like you say, AWS and TPWS.
ERTMS is coming, the rulebook is gradually being updated, but I think it's only in one location at present and that's taken a long time.
ERTMS is basically a moving section, rather than fixed signals your train has a safe buffer behind and in front of it. So you have a moving section/block that means you can fit more trains in. All indications are in the cab, helping you keep a safe distance from the train in front.
I believe ECTS works with ERTMS so that's not widespread, it's on the small section that ERTMS is currently on, which is still mainly for testing and that's taken time, just over 10 years now!
It's only a tiny portion of a Welsh branch line I believe... So that shows you how long things take on the railway.
And even then ERTMS isn't driverless.
We already have remote monitoring on a lot of trains but not widespread yet.
