Salary of tube and train drivers - why so high?

[Josh]

As I said you must be trying hard to be that ignorant . Yes knowing the rules like the back if their hand and how to apply them in any conditions or method of working whilst in control of trains couple hundred tons on a live railway doing speeds up to 100 with hundreds of passengers. If you don't get then I'm sorry

I'm not trying to be ignorant at all, I'm trying to figure out why Train Drivers get paid that amount they do as it's not an industry I am versed in. I just don't think because they know a specific set of protocols and safety regulations warrants the salary, hence why most of us are trying to figure it out.

Due to the lack of info and solid "this is what we do" information people will naturally draw their own parables hence my HGV in London example because we have nothing else to go on.

I think it's partly down to perception, just because you don't have control on rails does not make it easy. The sheer wait of trains and braking distances, things to remember, it's not easy. And where you really start to earn their money is when something goes wrong.

Do you have experience with train driving? If I was a driver would offer you a cab ride so could see it (although sack able offence no doubt)

I had a toy train set when I was about 5. I'd love, properly enjoy riding in a cab, seeing the operation - but yeah as you said it'll probably be a sackable offence.

I'm not trying to bait or rile people, I am just trying to figure out what is so complex to justify £49k+

 

[dowie]

Yet most top bankers earn 300times that of an employer.... Nobody questions that! just "good for them, they work hard, why not"!.

I think you'll find that lots of people question banker's pay, EU politicians even legislate on it and set arbitrary % limits on the amount that can be paid asa bonus etc..

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Is that for tube?. Depending on company and traction train drivers are around 35k to 50k mainly. More for the high speed and heavy haul guys

Tube. Some interesting comparisons in the story, if you care to read. I think this is why some posters are finding it hard to justify the difference (me included).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ndons-tube-drivers-and-why-are-they-striking/

 

[Semple]

The roads and the railway are different and not a good comparison. As I said , it's more in common with the airline industry than road

The rail industry might have adopted a lot of safety protocols from the airline industry, but i can't see how you can say it's similar.

Trains are guided by a rail network, even at junctions someone at a control unit (or might even be automated now), will adjust the junction for the trains relevant route. All the driver needs to do is slow the speed down to the limit and wait till you've passed through. Drivers may have to spend lots of time concentrating, but when the only movement is stop and go (i don't think trains can reverse?) people are of course going to ask what justifies the high pay.

 

[413x]

Union and risk create that pay. Plus London wage I suppose for tube

 

[Hawkwind1879]

I'm not trying to be ignorant at all, I'm trying to figure out why Train Drivers get paid that amount they do as it's not an industry I am versed in. I just don't think because they know a specific set of protocols and safety regulations warrants the salary, hence why most of us are trying to figure it out.

Due to the lack of info and solid "this is what we do" information people will naturally draw their own parables hence my HGV in London example because we have nothing else to go on.



I had a toy train set when I was about 5. I'd love, properly enjoy riding in a cab, seeing the operation - but yeah as you said it'll probably be a sackable offence.

I'm not trying to bait or rile people, I am just trying to figure out what is so complex to justify £49k+

If not tonight tomorrow I will get some videos linked that will help. They are mainly about safety incidents but are quite informative. There was a good series on the bbc a couple of years ago and I know there is also a series about the tube that might be useful.

 

[Hawkwind1879]

The rail industry might have adopted a lot of safety protocols from the airline industry, but i can't see how you can say it's similar.

Trains are guided by a rail network, even at junctions someone at a control unit (or might even be automated now), will adjust the junction for the trains relevant route. All the driver needs to do is slow the speed down to the limit and wait till you've passed through. Drivers may have to spend lots of time concentrating, but when the only movement is stop and go (i don't think trains can reverse?) people are of course going to ask what justifies the high pay.

Trains make reverse or wrong direction movements but under strict circumstances and under command from signaller. They get it wrong then potential for accident. Stop and go with a 100 ton train or 500 ton for something like heavy haul. The only contact that train has with the track is size of a coin on each wheel, it's not easy.

And what if that junction protecting signal has failed? Points failed? Points operator set the points wrong position? Degraded working is where a driver earns most of his salary

 

[Efour]

Tube drivers are responsible for getting many of the world's finest bankers to and from their places of work once a week, when they are not playing golf.
They deserve every penny. What do Paris metro or Berlin TB drivers get in comparison, ?genuine question.

 

[Hawkwind1879]

Tube drivers are responsible for getting many of the world's finest bankers to and from their places of work once a week, when they are not playing golf.
They deserve every penny. What do Paris metro or Berlin TB drivers get in comparison, ?genuine question.

New York about 55k I don't know if they add shift allowance on that though. For New York subway

 

[SPG]

Considering how much the "Franchises" make in operating profit I say fair play to them and long may it continue.

Always wondered why bus drivers get paid so little tbh.

Oh and Bankers do get paid far to much for doing next to nothing.

 

[ubersonic]

I'm not trying to bait or rile people, I am just trying to figure out what is so complex to justify £49k+

It's been explained a few times in the thread, a strong union and the ability to paralyse the capital when they strike results in being overpaid by a significant margin.

 

[Semple]

And what if that junction protecting signal has failed? Points failed? Points operator set the points wrong position? Degraded working is where a driver earns most of his salary

That seems to be a weekly occurrence down south!

And i thought the fail-safe with signals is always to stop unless the signal has given the next section the all-clear. So the drivers are only following instructions from the signaller, if anything i would say they are the ones who hold the ultimate responsibility to ensure that trains don't run into each other. Similar aspect to an air traffic controller.

 

[Josh]

It's been explained a few times in the thread, a strong union and the ability to paralyse the capital when they strike results in being overpaid by a significant margin.

Yeah I agree with that but there has to be more...surely.

 

[ubersonic]

They deserve every penny. What do Paris metro or Berlin TB drivers get in comparison, ?genuine question.

U-Bahn drivers get on average €30k (£25k) a year, starting salary is €27.3k going up to a max of 42k for team leaders/etc.

 

[Hawkwind1879]

That seems to be a weekly occurrence down south!

And i thought the fail-safe with signals is always to stop unless the signal has given the next section the all-clear. So the drivers are only following instructions from the signaller, if anything i would say they are the ones who hold the ultimate responsibility to ensure that trains don't run into each other. Similar aspect to an air traffic controller.

Unfortunately there are still wrong side failures where the equipment for what ever reason eg signal showing proceed when should be at danger.

The driver is always working to the signallers instructions but it is very important he follows those instructions exactly or aware if a signaller makes a mistake.

Off top of my head there was a crossover recently that due to engineering works was accidently left in a position that would cause a head on collision. Signaller unaware because it was disconnected. Driver spotted it and stopped

 

[dowie]

Yeah I agree with that but there has to be more...surely.

Why does there have to be more? That is simply how pay works - you negotiate and get what you can. Where you're not worth much individually then you negotiate as part of a union. Where your pay isn't open to negotiation then it is up to the employer to move the bands as a function of how many good candidates they can attract and retain - that is where pay gets artificially repressed - doctors, nurses, soldiers etc... though even then you'll get certain valuable trades/professions in the military given additional pay for retention, the NHS will be flexible with doctors to allow for private work etc...

 

[Hawkwind1879]

Yeah I agree with that but there has to be more...surely.

Probably driving at 100 at night, unfavourable weather conditions, So possible low adhesion on tracks. You've got 1000 people on your train and you can't just stop like a bus. So you need to know all your stopping points from memory, stations, speed changes etc on top of anything extra ordinary ie what if a tree on the line? Your not concentrating?

 

[Richeh]

Probably driving at 100 at night, unfavourable weather conditions, So possible low adhesion on tracks. You've got 1000 people on your train and you can't just stop like a bus. So you need to know all your stopping points from memory, stations, speed changes etc on top of anything extra ordinary ie what if a tree on the line? Your not concentrating?

I know nothing about what their job entails in the technical side but surely there is some computerisation monitoring tracks? Whilst I understand it is not going to be a simple job I don't see how stopping points, speed changes on a TRACK ie not public roads with random risks can warrant being paid considerably more than people in roles with far more responsibility.

Whilst it is true they may not be overpaid and everyone else is just underpaid it doesn't make it right or viable with how much they control our capital and pay needs to be evened out when theres nothing but news about NHS and teacher understaffing and train drivers being on another ****** strike!

With absolutely no basis I think if any goverment said 'enough, we're doing it, we're going automation the end' with the amount of disruptions of implementing it, union battles etc they know they wouldn't get anything else done and are unlikely to be re-relected so it just keeps going and going and going...

 

[Hawkwind1879]

I know nothing about what their job entails in the technical side but surely there is some computerisation monitoring tracks? Whilst I understand it is not going to be a simple job I don't see how stopping points, speed changes on a TRACK ie not public roads with random risks can warrant being paid considerably more than people in roles with far more responsibility.

Whilst it is true they may not be overpaid and everyone else is just underpaid it doesn't make it right or viable with how much they control our capital and pay needs to be evened out when theres nothing but news about NHS and teacher understaffing and train drivers being on another ****** strike!

With absolutely no basis I think if any goverment said 'enough, we're doing it, we're going automation the end' with the amount of disruptions of implementing it, union battles etc they know they wouldn't get anything else done and are unlikely to be re-relected so it just keeps going and going and going...

In degraded working you loose those safety systems. Then it's just the driver, signaller and most importantly rule book.

I don't agree with unions striking over pay, my union almost did it and I voted not to strike.

HoweVery things like doo are just ways to cut costs so the union are right to make a stand. THe government and train operating companies are forever looking to cut costs which is fair enough. But not at expense of passenger safety. Train guards are rules trained and protect passengers in an emergency

 

[Richeh]

So the train companies are trying to make it more un-automated? Seems odd. I thought a recent bout of strikes was about ticket office closures or some such?