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Scottish Independance Referendum 2

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Kyo, Mar 13, 2017.

  1. PlacidCasual

    Soldato

    Joined: May 13, 2003

    Posts: 5,998

    Personally I would be happy for a federalised UK with an equal devolution settlement. With an overarching UK parliament to deal with non devolved matters. I think it would be a huge spur to regional development. The problem is my view of what that looks like would require powers to be taken from the 3 devolved assemblies to aim for a rational set of equal powers to be devolved to all regions. So never going to happen.
     
  2. Uther

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 16, 2005

    Posts: 9,709

    Is it just me missing it or has Ruth Davidson been very quiet lately?
     
  3. chrismscotland

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 16, 2009

    Posts: 2,404

    She gave a speech at the Tory conference last week but I believe she’s due to be off on maternity leave soon (possibly already)
     
  4. Bluntwrapped

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 20, 2011

    Posts: 3,352

    Location: Livingston

    SPG epitomises the state of English nationalism and why the UK is ******.

    ‘500 years’ confirms this if anyone is in any doubt.
     
  5. Bluntwrapped

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 20, 2011

    Posts: 3,352

    Location: Livingston

    It would do you well to remember the country was divided over its own sovereignty. How many other countries have that problem?

    Could it be the argument for and against only exists in the context of a Union that wishes to prevent it?
     
  6. Heisenberg

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Aug 11, 2012

    Posts: 2,049

    Location: Scotland

    It would do you well to remember that the SNP didn't have a clue what would happen post independence and their white paper was based on made up nonsense. The country was divided by people who have been taken in by the dream of an independent Scotland with everyone better off, and the ones who realised that there was no plan and they couldn't even tell us what we would be spending in the shops. The SNP are an absolute joke.
     
  7. Bluntwrapped

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 20, 2011

    Posts: 3,352

    Location: Livingston

    Its depressing but the joke is on you my friend.

    Few questions:

    What other country would choose to vote against the sovereignty of its own people?

    Why would Scotland - a small country with enough resources to keep the UK going (for at least 44 of the last 300 years) struggle on its own?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCrone_report

    Why is it ok to face the uncertainties of Brexit under a tory government, but not independence of your own country? How many other countries have struggled in the way you are suggesting?

    Is there anything that can be said to make you reconsider the decision you made in 2014?
     
  8. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 21,444

    Isn't the special status of the islands with Norway?, quite frankly they would have to seek approval from Westminster to have their own referendum, i'm sure it would be handled in any agreement, the issue ultimately being how Little England supplies Little Shetland at that point, when frankly most of England doesn't even care. (especially the Unionists, ultra lul for that poll into acceptable loses from brexit)

    Who the **** cares about decommissioning, the recent report into oil rig habitation puts full decommissioning as a worst case scenario, leaving the rigs disconnected and possibly just blowing the support structure is all that is required, that not only provides a home safe from overfishing, but doesn't further damage the locale. I imagine it'd be damn sight less expensive than months of unnecessary work.

    Quite frankly it could even be a future tourist site if dealt with appropriately, and i don't trust the UK to do anything correctly in this regard... like ever, going by the last 10 years or so of dysfunctional morons some other morons voted in as government.
     
  9. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 13,652

    So they leave the UK, years later realise they are going bankrupt (because if they left now they would), then what? I doubt the UK would help (again) after they just turned their back on them.

    The SNP still hasn't provided any answers on how Scotland would support itself. Oil won't be enough and the demand for oil is going to drop sharply before 2040.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
  10. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 21,444

  11. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 21,444

    Pushed specifically by Greenpeace's little stunt and overall worthless existence. Reefs are far better uses for most of the rigs in question, at half/fifth of the cost. It's absolutely stupid to ask taxpayers to pay for something when a solution saves so much while creating breeding grounds in the process.

    **** Greenpeace.
     
  12. Bluntwrapped

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 20, 2011

    Posts: 3,352

    Location: Livingston

    Why would I need anything up to date. The context is exactly the same as it was 44 years ago (stop Scotland no matter what it takes)

    Shetland would never vote to rUK. The fact you’ve asked about it and whether the “scotch” are going to pay for the decommissioning suggests you have absolutely no idea what you’re asking and talking about.
     
  13. Bluntwrapped

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 20, 2011

    Posts: 3,352

    Location: Livingston

    Why would Scotland need to do anything different than any other country? You’re asking for answers to something that isn’t a problem. Scotland is one of the smallest but is the most resource rich country in the EU. The fact Unionists don’t like to acknowledge this isn’t any fault of the SNP.

    The need to obscure in order to perpetuate misunderstanding tells you everything you need to know.

    The UK is a dishonest lying political **** ****. Am I lying, exaggerating or is it fact?
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
  14. Nasher

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 13,652

    The resource is oil, but it's now not a reliable source of income and extracting it from the North Sea is expensive and not all that competative. Also not all of it is in UK waters so Scotland wouldn't necessarily have a right to it. Then if the Shetlands decide they want to stay in the UK, quite a large chunk of it stays with them.
     
  15. Bluntwrapped

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 20, 2011

    Posts: 3,352

    Location: Livingston

    Oil, water, renewable energy, farming, food, fishing, whisky to name a few.

    It was never said an independent Scotland would rely solely on oil and Shetland are never going to vote to remain in the UK - what would give you that idea in the first place?

    If needed Scotland could borrow just like any other Independent country. Something it cannot currently do under UK governance.
     
  16. Uther

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 16, 2005

    Posts: 9,709

    Voting for independence is probably your best bet for getting an EU passport if you don't have one already... ;)
     
  17. Kyo

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 11, 2003

    Posts: 4,597

    Correct me if I am wrong but the 1st independence was in 2014 and Brexit was 2016, so while I agree they are related it wasn't the main basis for SNP argument the first time around. So what I find most concerning iabout Nicola and the SNP is using Brexit as an another excuse to achieving their main party goal.

    Which is why I can't stop getting the impression they are disingenuous about their motives.
     
  18. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 3,328

    Well. One of the auguments that Cameron and Osbourne used was that if they voted for independence they would be thrown out of the EU as Scotland was part of the EU through the UK. So they told them the only way to guarantee staying party of the EU was for them to stay part of the Union.

    This was before any mention of an EU referendum. So it is the same as the remainers now asking for a 2nd ref on the bases that people voted on a misconception.
     
  19. Kyo

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 11, 2003

    Posts: 4,597

    Thank you, I wasn't aware of Cameron's pledge to remain but can see argument of both sides. Realistically it's a guarantee even Cameron didn't foresee he couldnt keep which in the end cost him his job. Just another chaotic mess caused by Brexit with all it's insanity that comes part and parcel.
     
  20. chrismscotland

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 16, 2009

    Posts: 2,404

    Scotland
    If nations with smaller or similar populations that don't have the things Scotland has (Oil - whats left, massive renewables potential, fisheries and food, whisky, financial services) can flourish I see no reason whatsoever that we couldn't too.

    In the days after the Brexit vote the large American Banks were discussing their options, grudgingly they've started planning moves to Dublin, Frankfurt and Paris but their preference was always Edinburgh, a Scotland in the EU would hoover up a lot of non-EU headquarters like America, Japan, etc as we have the skillset in Banking, Insurance and Finance and (despite the crap weather) aren't that different to London.

    The EU said in 2014 they wouldn't interfere in the internal affairs of a member state, one of the reasons that no-one (except Guy Verhofstadt) made any public comment about Scotlands potential ascension into the EU.
    However a Scotland leaving a non-member state in the UK would be fair game, and I have zero doubt we would be welcomed with open arms, our laws already are "EU Compliant" and while I don't doubt that the first decade would be tough financially in the long run Scotland will boom.

    Decisions made in Scotland for Scotland instead of this continual rubbish from Westminster.

    I know the SNP aren't necessarily popular but in a post-indy world they're dead, we'd start to see non-Westminster controlled Labour and Conservative type parties governing, the SNP would tear themselves apart once their goal is achieved (a bit like UKIP)