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Scottish Independance Referendum 2

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Kyo, Mar 13, 2017.

  1. Bluntwrapped

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 20, 2011

    Posts: 2,944

    Location: Livingston

    Why would Scotland need to do anything different than any other country? You’re asking for answers to something that isn’t a problem. Scotland is one of the smallest but is the most resource rich country in the EU. The fact Unionists don’t like to acknowledge this isn’t any fault of the SNP.

    The need to obscure in order to perpetuate misunderstanding tells you everything you need to know.

    The UK is a dishonest lying political **** ****. Am I lying, exaggerating or is it fact?
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018
  2. Nasher

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Nov 22, 2006

    Posts: 9,954

    The resource is oil, but it's now not a reliable source of income and extracting it from the North Sea is expensive and not all that competative. Also not all of it is in UK waters so Scotland wouldn't necessarily have a right to it. Then if the Shetlands decide they want to stay in the UK, quite a large chunk of it stays with them.
     
  3. Bluntwrapped

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 20, 2011

    Posts: 2,944

    Location: Livingston

    Oil, water, renewable energy, farming, food, fishing, whisky to name a few.

    It was never said an independent Scotland would rely solely on oil and Shetland are never going to vote to remain in the UK - what would give you that idea in the first place?

    If needed Scotland could borrow just like any other Independent country. Something it cannot currently do under UK governance.
     
  4. Moses

    Perma Banned

    Joined: Jun 24, 2007

    Posts: 27,051

    In the years since the recent referendum we’ve seen the issue with price volatility... to the point we were getting negative revenues.

    They voted no to independence, didn’t they?

    I live in Scotland... I’m one of you, now ;).
     
  5. Uther

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 16, 2005

    Posts: 8,442

    Voting for independence is probably your best bet for getting an EU passport if you don't have one already... ;)
     
  6. Kyo

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 11, 2003

    Posts: 4,223

    Correct me if I am wrong but the 1st independence was in 2014 and Brexit was 2016, so while I agree they are related it wasn't the main basis for SNP argument the first time around. So what I find most concerning iabout Nicola and the SNP is using Brexit as an another excuse to achieving their main party goal.

    Which is why I can't stop getting the impression they are disingenuous about their motives.
     
  7. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 1,482

    Well. One of the auguments that Cameron and Osbourne used was that if they voted for independence they would be thrown out of the EU as Scotland was part of the EU through the UK. So they told them the only way to guarantee staying party of the EU was for them to stay part of the Union.

    This was before any mention of an EU referendum. So it is the same as the remainers now asking for a 2nd ref on the bases that people voted on a misconception.
     
  8. Kyo

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 11, 2003

    Posts: 4,223

    Thank you, I wasn't aware of Cameron's pledge to remain but can see argument of both sides. Realistically it's a guarantee even Cameron didn't foresee he couldnt keep which in the end cost him his job. Just another chaotic mess caused by Brexit with all it's insanity that comes part and parcel.
     
  9. chrismscotland

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 16, 2009

    Posts: 1,897

    Scotland
    If nations with smaller or similar populations that don't have the things Scotland has (Oil - whats left, massive renewables potential, fisheries and food, whisky, financial services) can flourish I see no reason whatsoever that we couldn't too.

    In the days after the Brexit vote the large American Banks were discussing their options, grudgingly they've started planning moves to Dublin, Frankfurt and Paris but their preference was always Edinburgh, a Scotland in the EU would hoover up a lot of non-EU headquarters like America, Japan, etc as we have the skillset in Banking, Insurance and Finance and (despite the crap weather) aren't that different to London.

    The EU said in 2014 they wouldn't interfere in the internal affairs of a member state, one of the reasons that no-one (except Guy Verhofstadt) made any public comment about Scotlands potential ascension into the EU.
    However a Scotland leaving a non-member state in the UK would be fair game, and I have zero doubt we would be welcomed with open arms, our laws already are "EU Compliant" and while I don't doubt that the first decade would be tough financially in the long run Scotland will boom.

    Decisions made in Scotland for Scotland instead of this continual rubbish from Westminster.

    I know the SNP aren't necessarily popular but in a post-indy world they're dead, we'd start to see non-Westminster controlled Labour and Conservative type parties governing, the SNP would tear themselves apart once their goal is achieved (a bit like UKIP)
     
  10. Quartz

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 1, 2014

    Posts: 6,238

    Location: Aberdeen

    I disagree. They've all but taken over from Labour as the party of the left.
     
  11. Moses

    Perma Banned

    Joined: Jun 24, 2007

    Posts: 27,051

    In 2017 the SNP received 977 569 votes... the Tories 757 949... Labour 717 007... Lib Dems 179 061. Considering that, why do you think the SNP have all but taken over from Labour as the party of the left?
     
  12. Quartz

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 1, 2014

    Posts: 6,238

    Location: Aberdeen

    Because Labour are rapidly collapsing. One only has to look at what's happening here in Aberdeen where the local Labour councillors are still suspended or expelled from the party. Like it or not, the SNP are a left-wing party.
     
  13. Moses

    Perma Banned

    Joined: Jun 24, 2007

    Posts: 27,051

    Well, from 2015 to 2017 they increased their votes from 707 147 to the 717 007 mentioned above. It was the SNP who 'collapsed', if we're going to use such language, from 1 454 436 to the 977 569 mentioned above (obviously they came from different places... eg. Labour with ~1m votes in 2010 and the SNP with ~500k then).

    I'm not denying the SNP are to the left, but the idea they've replaced Labour doesn't really stand up when the latter are still receiving so many votes, and when they managed to increase their vote share in the last general election. Labour are still more than alive/a serious threat to the SNP.

    It's entirely possible that with a good leader - think what Davidson has done for the Tories - they could build back up and challenge the SNP on the left. It's not as though they have a stellar record dealing with devolved matters. And if Scotland did become independent you could see the SNP vote fracturing back to Labour and the Tories given eg. there must be a large number of SNP voters who are basically Tories who want independence.
     
  14. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 15,599

    Davison is no leader, lol She never turns up to her bloody surgeries or indeed ever goes infront of a camera to talk about why she's so afraid of scrutiny. The next vote will assuredly mean the Tories losing ground again.
     
  15. Kyo

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 11, 2003

    Posts: 4,223

    But Nicola is? During the last elections, she was hard selling independence to the point even her own party asked her to tone it down (until the elections were over) but as usual she persisted and it ended up hurting the party which gave them a reality check. So it can happen to anyone including the SNP.
     
  16. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 15,599

    Never once denied that the SNP are some infallible group of people, but vastly superior to the morons that run ScotLab and the downright racists that seem to pervade the Tory's lot (of which Davidson is assuredly not happy about, but hypocritically allows because it's politics).

    I mean you only need to look at the difference in demeanor between the DUP's Foster and Davidson to Tory HQ to realise how limp and worthless she really is. She's literally the epitome of self-hatred.

    For sure the SNP as a party could be more libertarian in my view to counterbalance the authoritarianism inherent in the West, but for now, i'm simply glad that some level of sense and appropriate diplomatic knowledge is at the top of governance here.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018
  17. eddiemcgarrigle

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 13, 2006

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    Location: Inverkip

    Davidson and Mundell now threatening to quit (aye right) if Northern Ireland gets a better deal than rest of UK as that would fuel calls for independence. In other words, we want our country to get the worst possible Brexit deal or we'll quit. Why do so many view their country so negatively.
     
  18. ubersonic

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 26, 2009

    Posts: 20,230

    While that is true, it's also unknown if it even had any effect on the first indyref (or even had the effect they were hoping for). We know from the 2016 EU referendum that only 41% of Scottish voters cared enough about EU membership to support it, the rest either wanted to leave or didn't care either way. It's entirely possible that the idea that leaving the UK meant leaving the EU too boosted the Yes campaigns result.
     
  19. Bluntwrapped

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 20, 2011

    Posts: 2,944

    Location: Livingston

    Ruth Davidson/Harrison has never done a real days work. Maybe not in her lifetime but definitely not since becoming a politician.

    Her constituents surgery record confirms this.

    The fact that she is the most protected MSP in Scotland and has been for years reveals the priority of the media in Scotland. She won ‘Scottish politician of the year’ twice running while doing nothing. They even put her on bake off hoping that would give her some publicity. Whenever she should be confronted, she disappears, says she’s pregnant or gives us a sob story to why we should feel sorry for her because living with mental health is difficult. Like many of her other party members as well as Labour, this woman no is more than charlatan and a Unionist shill.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
  20. JeditOjanen

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 7, 2011

    Posts: 3,628

    ^^^ Less "Unionist shill" and more "being a Tory", I think you'll find.

    For once I am in agreement with Eddie, which should tell you how transparent it all is. Sturgeon must be rubbing her hands with glee today.