Poll: Scottish independence vote

[Bluntwrapped]

Its not about punishing or taking away a currency its about rUK not wanting to be financially responsible for a independent scotland. If there was currency union then the rUK would have to bail out iScotland if /when it get into trouble.

If you want the stability and protection of the pound then you need to remain part of the union.

Sometimes I hate this bloody website.. Just spent about an hour writing a reply only to lose it all due to time out..

Either way - huge financial risk is involved. If Scotland proves it can stand on it's own two feet the long term effect of not having a currency union would be much more costly and damaging.

In the short term it certainly appears to be presented to us as a punishment/consequence. I would like to think Scotland has the benefit to any doubt in it's ability to thrive - given the opportunity and power to do so. I believe what can be good for Scotland can also be good for the rest of the UK, and it's not necessarily about breaking up the union but how we can operate individually to give everyone the best deal.

 

[Shadez]

Sometimes I hate this bloody website.. Just spent about an hour writing a reply only to lose it all due to time out..

Either way - huge financial risk is involved. If Scotland proves it can stand on it's own two feet the long term effect of not having a currency union would be much more costly and damaging.

In the short term it certainly appears to be presented to us as a punishment/consequence. I would like to think Scotland has the benefit to any doubt in it's ability to thrive - given the opportunity and power to do so. I believe what can be good for Scotland can also be good for the rest of the UK, and it's not necessarily about breaking up the union but how we can operate individually to give everyone the best deal.

The rejection of currency union is about one thing, rUK not underwriting the dept of another country. It isnt about how well iScotland could or could not do and it certainly has nothing to do with punishment.

 

[grumpysculler]

Either way - huge financial risk is involved. If Scotland proves it can stand on it's own two feet the long term effect of not having a currency union would be much more costly and damaging.

Why? Both the US and Eurozone are bigger trade partners for rUK (or even current UK) than iScotland would be. We don't use the Dollar or the Euro though!

It really isn't as big a barrier as Yes are making out. The barrier is mainly psychological because we are so used to being part of the same country.

The requirement to underwrite another country's spending is a big one, even if it can survive "on its own two feet." The Yes plan seems to be for an economy that diverges from rUK, which makes the problem all the bigger.

If currency unions are so great, why don't the SNP want to join the Euro any more?

 

[Stretch]

Up until now I've been in favour of Scottish independence but the recent few weeks have definitely caused a considerable amount of doubt. I don't want scaremongering tactics to skew what I believe is best for Scotland, so for now I remain undecided. I do wonder why certain individuals say Scotland is to the financial detriment of the rest of the UK yet the government will do everything within it's power to stop the yes vote from going ahead.

Who are these "certain individuals"?

Meanwhile, the better together campaign doesn't provide many positives to help convince us, just promises to what we'll lose out on if Scotland does vote yes.

What is it the government needs to spell out, that as a UK citizen, you're not in a better position to see for yourself?

The better together camping is a bit like selling the virtues of wearing a condom.

Yes, sex could be great without one.... however, if you go without you could be in whole heap of trouble.

Is that a negative or positive case for condoms, or just plain "scaremongering"?

Why? Both the US and Eurozone are bigger trade partners for rUK (or even current UK) than iScotland would be. We don't use the Dollar or the Euro though!

It really isn't as big a barrier as Yes are making out.

It's clear to everyone but the most brazened idiot that a currency union is a bigger risk than benefit to rUK.

 

[Toryglen-boy]

It's because they want all the advantages of the currency union without any of the responsibility (that would fall on the rUK because they couldn't afford to bail the rest out). Just like they want all the advantages of the UK without paying for them.

TBH, this is the real reason i want independence.

I am sick of being referred to as "they", i am sick of people South of the border assuming that we are a drain, and need subsidies to live, i am sick of people south of Carlisle, calling me "jock", i have a name, would you call every Pakistani person "****", or every Chinese person, "Chinky" ??. No, but then again, as soon as anyone finds out i am Scottish, its, "Oi ... Jock", and i hate it. I am sick of being labelled as coming from a medieval country, a "Third World" country, i am sick of taking Scottish money into shops down South, and being flat refused, or being told, "I'll give you 7 English pounds, for that Scottish tenner", i am sick of being looked upon with utter contempt, disdain, and being treated like a red headed stepchild. I am sick of people just assuming that England prop us up.

I like England, i lived there for 8 years, in the West Country, its one of my favourite places in the world, but i am sick of anytime i open my mouth, its like i have walked in Royston Vasey, "nothing for you here!". I am sick of being assumed that i am thug, that i get drunk and headbutt people for fun, whereas i am tee-total. For me, the real reason for independence, is the vitriolic comments i have read online, it sickens me, and some people south of the Midlands, really dont think before speaking, someone said in an earlier post

"Why cant England get its own parliament, for English only rule"

You do know the Houses of Parliament has never moved away from London, right? you do know ALL the power in the UK is in London, right?

Why are we looked at like scum? all we want, is to take on our own affairs, yet we get all this, "let THEM go, let THEM make a hash of it, let THEM fail, then we can all gloat and laugh at them"

Would you really want to be in a partnership with another state, that thought of you as nothing more, than an inconvenience? How would you feel, if you want north of the border, and all you where called was "Limey", or some other name, how would you feel, if people referencing you by their supposed cultural stereotype of you, WAS MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOUR NAME???

i have many good friends in England, and i like the place, i genuinely do, but i am over this wave of "hate", and this gleeful dance up and down, where our neighbours South of the Border just want to see us fail, so you can say, "I told you so, you cant do it without us, now sit down, and shutup ... Jock, and take what your given".


No. no more.

 

[Its_Me]

TBH, this is the real reason i want independence.

I am sick of being referred to as "they", i am sick of people South of the border assuming that we are a drain, and need subsidies to live, i am sick of people south of Carlisle, calling me "jock", i have a name, would you call every Pakistani person "****", or every Chinese person, "Chinky" ??. No, but then again, as soon as anyone finds out i am Scottish, its, "Oi ... Jock", and i hate it. I am sick of being labelled as coming from a medieval country, a "Third World" country, i am sick of taking Scottish money into shops down South, and being flat refused, or being told, "I'll give you 7 English pounds, for that Scottish tenner", i am sick of being looked upon with utter contempt, disdain, and being treated like a red headed stepchild. I am sick of people just assuming that England prop us up.

I like England, i lived there for 8 years, in the West Country, its one of my favourite places in the world, but i am sick of anytime i open my mouth, its like i have walked in Royston Vasey, "nothing for you here!". I am sick of being assumed that i am thug, that i get drunk and headbutt people for fun, whereas i am tee-total. For me, the real reason for independence, is the vitriolic comments i have read online, it sickens me, and some people south of the Midlands, really dont think before speaking, someone said in an earlier post

"Why cant England get its own parliament, for English only rule"

You do know the Houses of Parliament has never moved away from London, right? you do know ALL the power in the UK is in London, right?

Why are we looked at like scum? all we want, is to take on our own affairs, yet we get all this, "let THEM go, let THEM make a hash of it, let THEM fail, then we can all gloat and laugh at them"

Would you really want to be in a partnership with another state, that thought of you as nothing more, than an inconvenience? How would you feel, if you want north of the border, and all you where called was "Limey", or some other name, how would you feel, if people referencing you by their supposed cultural stereotype of you, WAS MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOUR NAME???

i have many good friends in England, and i like the place, i genuinely do, but i am over this wave of "hate", and this gleeful dance up and down, where our neighbours South of the Border just want to see us fail, so you can say, "I told you so, you cant do it without us, now sit down, and shutup ... Jock, and take what your given".


No. no more.

That is one massive chip.

Somehow i don't believe everyone you meet in England calls you jock.
In fact its probably happened to you one or twice and then you stereotype everyone - oh wait - what -wtf- is that what you are complaining about ?

However, what the rest of us are bothered about is the fact a minority get to decide the future of our country.

Any time the rest of us have an opinion about hwats best for rUK - we are bullies or fall into the stereotypical remit that suits you and Salmond best.

Now just remind me again, who is sick of this stigma more?

 

[Toryglen-boy]

However, what the rest of us are bothered about is the fact a minority get to decide the future of our country.

i see ... dont they just want to decide the future of their OWN country?

and let me get this right ... you have no problem with the houses of power, and all decisons being made in YOUR country, for the last couple of hundred years?

you imply i am blinkered, thats fair enough. it would appear your post, is just as opinionated as my own.

And as for being called "jock", once or twice ... BWAHAHAHA !!!

 

[Its_Me]

i see ... dont they just want to decide the future of their OWN country?

and let me get this right ... you have no problem with the houses of power, and all decisons being made in YOUR country, for the last couple of hundred years?

you imply i am blinkered, thats fair enough. it would appear your post, is just as opinionated as my own.

And as for being called "jock", once or twice ... BWAHAHAHA !!!

Just so much failure in your bigoted opinion

 

[Stretch]

No. no more.

Why, where are you moving to?

and let me get this right ... you have no problem with the houses of power, and all decisons being made in YOUR country, for the last couple of hundred years?

All the decisions are made in our country.

 

[Toryglen-boy]

Why, where are you moving to?

Australia, came here several years ago.

how much better is it here than there!! pahh!!

 

[Stretch]

So you've escaped English oppression by fleeing to oz, only to hang around here to be insulted and outranged by people "south of the border"?

Forgive me for thinking it's not all that bad

 

[Toryglen-boy]

So you've escaped English oppression by fleeing to oz, only to hang around here to be insulted and outranged by people "south of the border"?

Forgive me for thinking it's not all that bad

I got the chance to come here, so i did. it wasn't to escape anything, or any oppression of any sort. In fact, coming here several years ago, has allowed me to distance myself from it, and see it plainly. Bear in mind, i am 44, and emigrated at 36, so probably older than you are now, when i still lived in the UK. I have many great friends in England, and enjoyed the history and scenery there, i just ... hate this narrow mindedness, that England carries the UK, and some of the venom ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm5EBDa42ck


And while there are alot of English people who dont think like this, there seems to be a growing amount of people who do, all South of the Watford gap ... maybe i am out of touch, i have to do all my reading up, as i am on the other side of the world, here are some of the comments from the BBC site, after Gordon Brown made his speech yesterday.



"As long as the Scots do not have any say in Westminster over English and Welsh affairs then I really do no care how things are run in a devolved scenario. Phil #4 is correct. We have focussed for far to long on appeasing the Scots. It is time the English and Welsh were equals in their own country."


"As I am English and always will be, I wish the Welsh and the Scots would both become independent and stop being a drain on us the English.

I don't think either of them are capable of standing on their own two feet without significantly increasing their taxation.

Let them have their own Bank, currency and EU membership (if they can get in), then I will not have to listen to them whinging!!"


"And when is Brown going to give the English a Parliament??? Never because he still believes in Scottish, Welsh and Irish MP's voting on English only matters. The only good to come out of Scottish Independence is 40 fewer Labour MP's to rip us , the English, off."



These words aren't mine, they are from English people commenting on the Gordon Brown proposal, and you say i have a chip on my shoulder? wouldn't you be fed up at reading this bile?

 

[Mr Joshua]

These words aren't mine, they are from English people commenting on the Gordon Brown proposal, and you say i have a chip on my shoulder? wouldn't you be fed up at reading this bile?

This isn't just a one way thing and you would have to be pretty stupid to think there isn't just as much animosity towards the sasanachs and a lot of people are also fed up with that state of affairs, it's unhelpful and only creates division where there should be none.

 

[V F]

TBH, this is the real reason i want independence.

I am sick of being referred to as "they", i am sick of people South of the border assuming that we are a drain, and need subsidies to live, i am sick of people south of Carlisle, calling me "jock", i have a name, would you call every Pakistani person "****", or every Chinese person, "Chinky" ??. No, but then again, as soon as anyone finds out i am Scottish, its, "Oi ... Jock", and i hate it. I am sick of being labelled as coming from a medieval country, a "Third World" country, i am sick of taking Scottish money into shops down South, and being flat refused, or being told, "I'll give you 7 English pounds, for that Scottish tenner", i am sick of being looked upon with utter contempt, disdain, and being treated like a red headed stepchild. I am sick of people just assuming that England prop us up.

I like England, i lived there for 8 years, in the West Country, its one of my favourite places in the world, but i am sick of anytime i open my mouth, its like i have walked in Royston Vasey, "nothing for you here!". I am sick of being assumed that i am thug, that i get drunk and headbutt people for fun, whereas i am tee-total. For me, the real reason for independence, is the vitriolic comments i have read online, it sickens me, and some people south of the Midlands, really dont think before speaking, someone said in an earlier post

"Why cant England get its own parliament, for English only rule"

You do know the Houses of Parliament has never moved away from London, right? you do know ALL the power in the UK is in London, right?

Why are we looked at like scum? all we want, is to take on our own affairs, yet we get all this, "let THEM go, let THEM make a hash of it, let THEM fail, then we can all gloat and laugh at them"

Would you really want to be in a partnership with another state, that thought of you as nothing more, than an inconvenience? How would you feel, if you want north of the border, and all you where called was "Limey", or some other name, how would you feel, if people referencing you by their supposed cultural stereotype of you, WAS MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOUR NAME???

i have many good friends in England, and i like the place, i genuinely do, but i am over this wave of "hate", and this gleeful dance up and down, where our neighbours South of the Border just want to see us fail, so you can say, "I told you so, you cant do it without us, now sit down, and shutup ... Jock, and take what your given".


No. no more.

Did you watch This Week after Question Time 2 weeks ago, I think? Michael Portillo thinks Scotland are lazy and nothing but spongers.

Ah, the episode with, Pat Kane. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03wytt6

 

[Toryglen-boy]

This isn't just a one way thing and you would have to be pretty stupid to think there isn't just as much animosity towards the sasanachs and a lot of people are also fed up with that state of affairs, it's unhelpful and only creates division where there should be none.

indeed. i agree. and i am not stupid!

Truth is, there has always been a division. and it wont go away, some of it, for some reason, is historical, over things that happened a millenia ago. if everybody in the *cough* "UK", thought the same of each other, then i would be all for staying together, but they dont, your right. i can only go from my 8 years experience of living in North Somerset, just before coming to Australia. Although from my wot i can see, alot of the Scottish comments center around, "rule from Westminster isn't working, and hasn't worked for Scotland for a long time", obviously thats how i read it, and i dont need anyone chiming in with "thats your take on it", i would gladly welcome any links you can post with anti-English sentiment, not to provoke things, i am genuinely interested in reading it. My point is, alot of the anti-Scottish sentiment is more personal, "we prop you up", "you drain us", "why dont you just **** off, so we can have a laugh at you trying to make a go of it".

I would be ashamed to read any anti-English sentiment along such personal lines posted from anyone of my countrymen, and wouldn't condone it. Having an opinion, as i have, based on personal experience, thats all i can go on, and post about, like being smacked in the mouth one night in Somerset, because England lost an international match that night, and i was Scottish. Does anyone in Scotland look at English money and say "oooooo .... not taking that", no. no they dont. 50% of the notes in use in Scotland are English, and no one bats an eyelid, as opposed to Scottish money being viewed like used toilet paper anytime i tried to use it in England, when i use to drive back to Somerset from Glasgow, i had to stop at the services in Gretna, and make sure i have no Scottish bank notes on me, as they cant be used. Sure, there is some bad feeling on both sides, and thats unfortunate, but for me, sadly, in the worldwide community, the people who have the lowest opinion of us, are our neighbours, and that, "really sticks in ma craw"


Maybe the Scots, Irish, Welsh, and Cornish should join together to form a Celtic federation.

 

[platypus]

That would great news if I could be given the right to vote in the country i was born in and I am a citizen of. It is just pure lunacy that I can vote in the general election but can't take part in the referendum!

And yet 16 year olds can. Now who's the most impressionable people that can be whipped up into a nationalist frenzy? I'm surprised the SNP didn't manage to get the vote for anyone old enough to hold a pencil.

 

[platypus]

snip

Oh dear. And "well reasoned, balanced" people like yourself have the vote?

Could you be any more of a victim?

i see ... dont they just want to decide the future of their OWN country?

Again, why can you decide the future of YOUR country, but I cannot decide the future of mine?[/QUOTE]

 

[platypus]

And while there are alot of English people who dont think like this, there seems to be a growing amount of people who do, all South of the Watford gap ... maybe i am out of touch, i have to do all my reading up, as i am on the other side of the world, here are some of the comments from the BBC site, after Gordon Brown made his speech yesterday.



"As long as the Scots do not have any say in Westminster over English and Welsh affairs then I really do no care how things are run in a devolved scenario. Phil #4 is correct. We have focussed for far to long on appeasing the Scots. It is time the English and Welsh were equals in their own country."


"As I am English and always will be, I wish the Welsh and the Scots would both become independent and stop being a drain on us the English.

I don't think either of them are capable of standing on their own two feet without significantly increasing their taxation.

Let them have their own Bank, currency and EU membership (if they can get in), then I will not have to listen to them whinging!!"


"And when is Brown going to give the English a Parliament??? Never because he still believes in Scottish, Welsh and Irish MP's voting on English only matters. The only good to come out of Scottish Independence is 40 fewer Labour MP's to rip us , the English, off."



These words aren't mine, they are from English people commenting on the Gordon Brown proposal, and you say i have a chip on my shoulder? wouldn't you be fed up at reading this bile?

Well done, you've quoted a few posts off the BBC. You've also ignored the comments on the BBC where Scottish people say exactly the same thing about their country. Funny that you didn't post some of those..

In a more realistic world, why can't you see that people might be a little ticked off with the referendum nonsense? It's endless swings and roundabouts, with Salmond telling us what we can and can't do in our own country, with little credible evidence to back up anything he says, and accusing anyone of bullying/scare-mongering when they challenge him; and conversely it's BT presenting their own arguments, a lot of which also can't be backed up.

That is what most people are fed up of, I believe.

Ah nevermind I just read your last post; you're not interested in obtaining a balanced view yourself, you want to be fed the information. Nothing like having informed voters in such an important referendum.

Having an opinion, as i have, based on personal experience, thats all i can go on, and post about, like being smacked in the mouth one night in Somerset, because England lost an international match that night, and i was Scottish. Does anyone in Scotland look at English money and say "oooooo .... not taking that", no. no they dont. 50% of the notes in use in Scotland are English, and no one bats an eyelid, as opposed to Scottish money being viewed like used toilet paper anytime i tried to use it in England, when i use to drive back to Somerset from Glasgow, i had to stop at the services in Gretna, and make sure i have no Scottish bank notes on me, as they cant be used. Sure, there is some bad feeling on both sides, and thats unfortunate, but for me, sadly, in the worldwide community, the people who have the lowest opinion of us, are our neighbours, and that, "really sticks in ma craw"

Massive. Chip. Oh dear, you really are hard done by aren't you.

Lets be facetious for a second and take your point about England losing an international, why is it ok for the home nations to hate Englands sporting teams?

 

[El Capitano]

I am sick of being referred to as "they"

i see ... don't they just want to decide the future of their OWN country?

Fascinating.

 

[ubersonic]

I am sick of being referred to as "they"

Okay then, how does "you people" sound?