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Scottish Nationalists set for a majority

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by ThePirateHulk, May 6, 2011.

  1. ThePirateHulk

    Hitman

    Joined: Feb 3, 2009

    Posts: 897

    Location: Sydney

    It appears that the Scottish National party are on the brink of achieving what many thought was not possible in the Scottish parliament...an outright majority (in fact the voting system was designed to avoid a one party majority).

    THis could be an absolutely historic night in Scottish politics with the Labour part being severly damaged in their own central belt heartlands. Where will this leave Scotlands place in the union going forward? The very least I can see is a complete rewrite of the Scotland bill to give Hollyrood more control over taxes such as corporation tax and a more equitable share of the revenues from North Sea oil.

    It's certainly going to be an interesting next five yours in Scottish politics.
     
  2. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 47,224

    Location: Plymouth

    If this result occurs, and is repeated at the next General Election, Labour is in real trouble. They have only held a majority in the UK parliament in 2001 and 2005 due to the Scottish vote, and it was only the scottish vote that stopped them have a total collapse in 2010...

    Go Alex Salmond :D
     
  3. Castiel

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Jun 26, 2010

    Posts: 63,651

    It will change nothing, Westminster decide how much autonomy the Scottish Parliament get and they will not be handing over concessions such as North Sea oil revenue or comprehensive tax powers without removing the block grant, which is in fact a more than equitable share of oil revenue anyway.
     
  4. scorza

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 22, 2004

    Posts: 26,685

    Location: Deep England

    Hmm very interesting, obviously I don't keep up to date with Scottish politics but have to wonder how the SNP remain so popular despite being in government. Just keep blaming London or is there more to it than that? ;)

    As I'm sure Biohazard will be along shortly, I remember him quoting some Westminster politician criticising the SNP for "deliberately" making things better for Scottish people or something - any chance of that quote again?
     
  5. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 47,224

    Location: Plymouth

    There's a few reasons:

    • they haven't been able to screw the countries finances in the past, nor has anyone else, due to the lack of borrowing powers.
    • They also didn't have to bail out the two failed Scottish banks (HBOS and RBS) because the UK taxpayer did it.
    • There is still a backlash against Labour following their time heading up the UK government
    • The SNP made more popular choices in power around how to spend money, made possible due to the block grant and the much smaller population.
    • The SNP don't have to take any responsibility at all for the cuts imposed by Whitehall, and their voters realise it, unless UK voters who blame the cutter rather than the group who made the cuts necessary.
    • The SNP do not tend to suffer the 'protest vote' issue that the Lib Dems do, and therefore weren't damned the moment they entered power for having to behave like adults, and people also tended to read their manifesto, again unlike the Lib Dems.
     
  6. Orcish-Horde

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 17, 2004

    Posts: 3,692

    The stagnation of the big 3 in UK politics means the SNP are seen as an alternative, SNP also don't have any baggage due to their political past.
     
  7. Haiku

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Dec 8, 2007

    Posts: 1,257

    Location: Edinburgh

    I can't tell whether your attitude stems from ignorance, arrogance or both - but regardless you are totally mistaken. It is not Westminster that will decide the powers of the Scottish Parliament, but the sovereign Scottish people. Period.
     
  8. neil3k

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 13, 2004

    Posts: 6,762

    Location: Bedford

    No,

    as far as I am aware the scottish parliament has to answer to westminster until a time they should hold a referendum on independance.
     
  9. ubersonic

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 26, 2009

    Posts: 20,575


    Erm, hes actually correct, the Scottish parliament doesn't have any say over the north sea oil fields.


     
  10. Haiku

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Dec 8, 2007

    Posts: 1,257

    Location: Edinburgh

    You guys are missing my point. I'm not arguing about technicalities of the Scotland Act or whatever, I'm saying that if the Scottish people demand change then it will happen. What we appear to be witnessing this morning is about the most emphatic endorsement conceivable for the idea of the Scottish Parliament accruing more power.
     
  11. Biohazard

    PermaBanned

    Joined: Aug 29, 2003

    Posts: 31,334

    You couldn't really be any more ignorant of Scottish Labours failings over the last 4-50 years if you tried, or underestimate the political earthquake that has just ripped the party in two.

    The SNP were popular because they can actually govern, Labour showed themself to be intellectually feeble and and full of negativity from the start of 4 years ago till after the election last night, and I doubt it will disapear yet..

    If anything it was Labour perversly 'blaming London' and the tories on 'Tory cuts' and trying to sully Scottish politics as a mere protest vote to the 'dreaded' tories in Westminster; completely ignoring the reality of the mess they left behind in the UK and the debt riddled catastrophe that they were must have had a large impact. Not being able to own up to your own mistakes doesn't normally instil confidence. Neither does it help when the party leader runs away from protesters wanting to speak about those 'tory cuts'.

    This was a parliament designed to be a trap for the SNP from Labour, and look how its punched its way out of that.

    They thought telling grannies wee horror stories would 'bring scotland back to labour', oh how they overestimated their claimed near god given right to Scotland which they will be lucky to ever get back. Glasgow has well and trully been smashed.

    Where as the SNP looked to the future with a vision, Labour looked to the past with a nightmare. In the end the difference in policy, quality and leadership was so wildly different that the SNP ended up taking votes from all the other parties across the board.

    Which sums up Scottish Labour all over. An English Lord giving the impression that Scotland is always required to be sub standard and sub serviant.

    Attitudes like this repel the electorate, and with continued negativity it has gone a long way towards the meltdown that happened last night.

    Not even the sharpest pundits expected such a strong swing.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2011
  12. Castiel

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: Jun 26, 2010

    Posts: 63,651

    Actually it is not. Westminster hold the final decision. The Scottish parliament or even the people themselves can demand whatever they want, if Westminster disagree then they have no power power to decide otherwise. All they can do is attempt to persuade Westminster to change their mind.

    Personally I support a referendum on Scottish Independence, if the majority want to go it alone then let them stand or fall on their own merit, however despite SNP gains in local elections and the Scottish parliament I doubt the majority of Scots actually want full independence.

    Until they gain Independence however, Scotland, I am afraid is not a sovereign state, so I suggest you retract you ignorance and arrogance nonsence forthwith.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2011
  13. Mr Jack

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 19, 2004

    Posts: 17,244

    Location: Kiel, Germany

    Labour ran a really bad campaign. The SNP are well in touch with the electorate, have left wing policies that appeal to the majority in Scotland and Salmond has done a very good job of getting Scotland to punch above its weight.

    Ed should be worried, he needs SNP voters to back him in 2015.
     
  14. Biohazard

    PermaBanned

    Joined: Aug 29, 2003

    Posts: 31,334

    [Scotland Act]".... and stability of UK's fiscal, economic and monetary system. "

    Oh how ironic.

    :D
     
  15. Mr Jack

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 19, 2004

    Posts: 17,244

    Location: Kiel, Germany

    A majority will be problematic for the SNP though, they'll have no excuse not to call that referendum.
     
  16. Biohazard

    PermaBanned

    Joined: Aug 29, 2003

    Posts: 31,334

    Hahah :D
     
  17. Biohazard

    PermaBanned

    Joined: Aug 29, 2003

    Posts: 31,334

    Not at present, no, but there hasn't been a real campaign for it either.

    But, that's only part of it I think there will be a lot more 'national conversation' to come, time will tell.
     
  18. Haiku

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Dec 8, 2007

    Posts: 1,257

    Location: Edinburgh

    If the Scottish people overwhelmingly express a preference for more powers (or less for the sake of argument) by means of elected MSPs and MPs who share that view, then the people will get their way. You're inhabiting a fantasy land if you believe otherwise.

    That's why we have devolution in the first place, the public clamour for it became simply irresistible. It's the Scottish people who will ultimately decide these matters, not Westminster.

    I clearly said the people are sovereign, not the state.
     
  19. scorza

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 22, 2004

    Posts: 26,685

    Location: Deep England

    Yet this did not happen in the Welsh Assembly and Labour performed reasonably well in local elections in England.
     
  20. ubersonic

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 26, 2009

    Posts: 20,575

    It can be taken a number of ways though, the way I read it his complaint was not that they were using Scottish money to make things in Scotland better, that's a good thing, I thought his complaint was that they were using UK money to make things in Scotland better than in England.

    Though having said that how much UK taxpayers money did labour invest in the English Olympics? lol



    The welsh assembly is a joke, 11 constituency's in the north and 30 in the south, a party can get 30-40% of the vote and have an overwhelming majority over a party that gets 70-60% of the vote lol, democracy.....
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2011