Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by ThePirateHulk, May 6, 2011.
Try it with Castiel on ignore, it gets stranger but more pleasant.
Biohazzard has flogged a whole market of dead houses.
Continuing the point about free Uni places for EU students in Scotland, excluding rUK.
Rise in EU students applying to Scottish universities
Make them all pay!!
If they want further education then "they" can pay for it. Why should everyone else foot the bill?
Half the students are doing stupid degree's in Art History and David Beckham etc anyway.
Good luck finding a job with any of those on your CV!
That is not the fault of governance here, that is simply the universities getting away with fraud of a sorts.
I see the nationalist retort seems to be dying its death.
Not much happening I guess.
Oh i see the YES campaign is officially announced.
Exactly the angle they(SNP) wanted all along, after all who would vote NO when they can vote YES.
Surely YES could be construed either way, but the SNP do not even have the trust in their own Scottish voters to construct an unbiased campaign.
After all it is far easier to run the 'VOT YES' then a 'Vote for the unknown' (& trust us without any answers) campaign.
So whats happening here then? (scots independance debate, not this thread) There was a bit of hoo hah about it a month or more ago, but nothing in the news recently. Where are we at, what are the polls showing? Has Cameron done anything other than say he'd prefer to keep a Union? Surely it's inevitiable now that the vote will go towards independance? What are the questions on the ballot paper,? I don't think there will be that 'devo-max' option, has this been confirmed?
I suspect it may settle down a bit between now and May when the consultation is due to be finished. Neither side will want to be accused of kicking the hornets nest before then.
I did see a bit of Salmond on Sunday Politics yesterday, not enough to comment on the content though. Although I noticed he twice used the words "anti-independence" to describe his opponents which bugged me a bit. Would it be OK with him if Cameron called him "anti-Unionist"?
Cameron probably calls him a lot worse than that (I know I do!).
Just not in public
The unionists are already coining independence as 'seperatism' in an attempt to make it sound scary to the masses.
As I read in the Herald today, the question on independence used to be answered with 'why' whereas now, it tends to be answered with 'why not'. The scales have tipped and the balance has swung.
Is it not Separatism though?
Is that not what seperating from the United Kingdom and gaining Independence is?
If Unionists are anti-Independence, are Nationalists not equally anti-Union?
Why is supporting the Union negative and supporting Independence positive?
It seems that it is ok for the SNP to use negative terms for their opponents, but not the other way around.
How could it possibly be separatism when Scotland is/will and always has been a separate country? It merely devolved power to Westminster. Is this the standard of the debate? The sooner unionists realise this the sooner they will realise how ridiculous they sound when they use the term separatist.
And Salmond doesn't sound ridiculous using the term "anti-independence"?
He knows pro-Union doesn't necessarily mean anti-independence so he seems happy with that standard of debate.
It is political separatism from the United Kingdom...which is the State...Scotland is not currently a state. The SNP are advocating separation from that State in order to create another independent State.
It is political separatism.
Scotland already has it's own government in a parliament as a result of the previous referendum, it is already separate. When this happened no matter how many times it is said 'reserved matters' or that it's not a parliament its an 'executive' it still stands that Scotland has it's own parliamentary government. Heck even the Tories understand this by forwarding the notion that Scotland has two governments however again it is an attempt to affirm Westminster Dominion. The first minister has been extremely accommodating with regards to the discussion and with whom to include in this discussion but has stood firm on this point.
As far as Alex Salmond's party are concerned Independence is their raison d'etre. I do not agree with their stance as I don’t think Scotland is anything other than an Independent nation which regained it's voice by the reconvening of the Scottish parliament. I have said it more than once and I wont repeat it again, in 1707 Scotland devolved its government to Westminster NOT the other way around. When the Scottish parliament was reconvened in 1999 this arrangement of state was over. The reason why it has not been addressed until now is that the control of the Scottish parliament has been held by unionist party’s. This is no longer the case the SNP have merely affirmed the sovereignty of the Scots people and stood on a manifesto offering a referendum to confirm the will of the people.
Its interesting that this thread has gone rather quiet, with the local council election results now in it appears that Scottish Unionism holds a clear majority.
Independant SNP led Scotland is looking unlikely with only a 32.7% popular vote share.
The SNP swept to power after worse results in the council elections back in 2007, so I'm not sure the local elections are reflective on the nationals. However I think the real story is the turn out; will people still not care when we're voting whether or not to leave the union? Maybe.
I think if we're still talking about 33% turnouts, with I think a large proportion of those who do vote doing so based on party colour, making it largely pointless trying, then the independence vote is going to return a negative. If the unwashed masses actually turn up to the polls, then it's anyones game.
I don't think people really pay much attention to facts though, we'll see what happens when the campaign happens, and how bias the media in Scotland are to which side, and the chances of labour winning a UK wide election.
Why did you come to the conclusion it was unionism that mattered here?
I didn't, what matters is Scottish Nationalism. Which has failed to bring in a vote that demostates clearly that Scotland wants independence. Its in their court to demostrate that, low turn out, low popular vote share. The SNP just can't get the vote out to show the support for its aim of an indepentant Scotland. With low voter turnout they should be taking at less +50% of the popular vote, they and their voters after all want to change Scotland but they are not out voting. The Unionists as decribe by the SNP which are still in the Union are are bringing in a greater vote. It will be interesting to see how it all works out in the end.
This vote wasn't about the referendum or Scotland’s Independence.
I find it interesting that you have taken a similar stance from the figures the BBC have chosen to display which many of those in the Sottish MSM have also copy and pasted to suit the Unionist agenda. STV on the other hand ran the story with the real figures complete with gains and losses contrasted against the 2007 council elections which present a vastly different picture.
What is perfectly clear in these figures is that the labour vote in Glasgow in particular shows that Labours position with regards to seats returned in 2007 is 'no change' while the SNP gained 7 seats. The BBC has for some unknown reason decided to take 2nd of May 2012 figures for Labour in this ward creating the illusion of Labour receiving a +5 seats gained. It is pertinent to the discussion as these were Labour seats won at the 2007 elections and held by labour until very recently when the candidates were deselected by Labour themselves. Meaning that in-spite of the massive smear campaign targeted on the FM over the last 2 weeks by Labour abetted by the State broadcaster in Glasgow Labour has made no gains in their heartland against the SNP who have gained 7 seats. Further to this the SNP have increased their share of the vote from the 2007 Scottish election doubling the candidates returned to 30 which when considered as the SNP's 6th year of government is not a bad result at all, quite impressive to be fair.
It is also true that the Liberal democrats and conservatives took a very sore beating north of the border and given a bloody nose south of the border. It is abundantly clear to this voter that the figures returned suggest a protest vote north of the border against the coalition, the orange book is not working for Scots voters. It has no bearing upon the Independence debate what so ever as all polls from Glasgow including the most recent MORI have shown Glasgow to be Pro Independence, in-spite of returning a Labour council in these council elections.
If you had a genuine interest in this discussion rather than pushing a particular agenda then one might have expected a little more candour via further investigation of the facts rather than the repetition of the State broadcasters propaganda.
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