1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Scottish Nationalists set for a majority

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by ThePirateHulk, May 6, 2011.

  1. reefoid

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 2,053

    Location: Southend-on-Sea

    No, Castiel is correct. 100% of scots can vote for independence but unless Westminster agrees to this it means diddly squat. Obviosuly in the real world, in the very unlikely event of a Yes vote I would think Westminster would agree, but the final say is with Westminster, not the scots.

    And who are these sovereign people you refer to? Sovereign means:

    As far as I'm aware, none of these refer to the scottish people.
     
  2. Mr Jack

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 19, 2004

    Posts: 17,318

    Location: Kiel, Germany

    Huh? Labour got 43.4% of the vote, twice the Tory vote and well over twice the PC vote.
     
  3. Biohazard

    PermaBanned

    Joined: Aug 29, 2003

    Posts: 31,334

    The Scottish dynamic is really quite different to Wales however.
     
  4. Biohazard

    PermaBanned

    Joined: Aug 29, 2003

    Posts: 31,334

    It is a technicallity that prevents it yes, but Westminster would prevent it at it's own peril.

    Look what ignoring Scotland last time round has given us, a devolved parliament with an ever increasing nationalist power block.

    The Scottish people.

    Your answer lies in; "person who has sovereign power or authority."

    The Scot's people have authority over their own destiny, so that is sovereign.
     
  5. Haiku

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Dec 8, 2007

    Posts: 1,257

    Location: Edinburgh

    I'm not discussing the black and white of the Scotland Act, but rather the actual practicalities of the situation, which you acknowledge yourself.

    If the Scottish electorate routinely and convincingly demand that more power be transferred north, then Westminster simply couldn't ignore that popular sentiment.

    I simply mean that it's the people who hold authority. The people will have the final say.
     
  6. Biohazard

    PermaBanned

    Joined: Aug 29, 2003

    Posts: 31,334

    I agree, and it isn't what I'd be doing either but heck even if it fails an SNP government is still better than a Labour led one.
     
  7. reefoid

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 2,053

    Location: Southend-on-Sea

    Seems we're actually agreeing it would happen, just who has the power to make it happen!!

    Although as already mentioned, Scots don't have the authority over their own destiny, Westminster do, so its not sovereign. All semantic I guess though.
     
  8. Biohazard

    PermaBanned

    Joined: Aug 29, 2003

    Posts: 31,334

    Of course the Scot's have authority over their own destiny.

    Just like the Irish did before us, and all other peoples around the world. People are sovereign, regardless of the political arrangements they sit under - that is really an irrelevence.

    Westminster can write down in law what it likes, it can't stop human, moral, rights.

    UK is happy to foist its 'democracy' abroad, but more than happy to subjugate its populace at home regardless of their views?

    Is this the tune?
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2011
  9. Nitefly

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Sep 24, 2005

    Posts: 31,644

    Does anyone in England care for Scottish independence? If so, why? Genuine question.
     
  10. Biohazard

    PermaBanned

    Joined: Aug 29, 2003

    Posts: 31,334

    Dolph does, although from his point of view it's to stop paying for her. There will be more, probably at times for differing reasons but broadly around the economic disparancy issue.

    There is a growing call for English independence, which I support. It's not Scotland and ignoring of everyone else, we need prosperous economies around the British isles as inter-trade between the nations is obviously our biggest market. Unfortunately the UK and its imperial pretence has busted our flush.

    We need a new hand.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2011
  11. ubersonic

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 26, 2009

    Posts: 20,595

    Thats kinda my point, Labour have pretty much won it already and the votes from north Wales aren't even in yet, hell Labour have won 21 seats in south Wales so far, that's nearly 2x the total number of seats in the whole of north Wales lol.

    Looking at it the entire of north Wales could vote PC in and Labour would still have more power, despite 50% of the country electing PC and ~25% of the country electing Labour, like I said democracy lol.
     
  12. RDM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 20,211

    I would not say that I would wish Scotland to be independant, I don't, but I would fully support an independant Scotland if that is what the people want.

    Of course there are advantages for the UK of an independant Scotland, the main one being that Labour would be in serious trouble without the support of Scottish Labour MPs. :p
     
  13. RDM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 20,211

    Isn't that because there are many more people in South Wales? Aren't the seats of similar size population wise?
     
  14. scorza

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 22, 2004

    Posts: 26,685

    Location: Deep England

    I think it's an issue for the Scots, if they want it then I think they should have it (they can't have the rest of the UK's oil and gas though). Presumably any referendum would be simply for people living in Scotland however, irrespective of nationality. Scottish people living in England, Wales and Northern Ireland wouldn't be able to vote in a referendum, I think they should.
     
  15. Biohazard

    PermaBanned

    Joined: Aug 29, 2003

    Posts: 31,334

    Indeed.

    I will be interested to see how the Conservatives approach the Westlothian question in the mean time, dealing with that properly is another nail in the coffin for the UK.
     
  16. Biohazard

    PermaBanned

    Joined: Aug 29, 2003

    Posts: 31,334

    :confused:
     
  17. RDM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 20,211

    How would that work though as there is no proof of Scottish? If you say "Born in Scotland" then that dienfranchises many Scots that were not born there. Scottish Parents? Do you need one or both? How would you define if someone was Scottish? Up in the border area you would probably have a hard job working out who was and wasn't Scottish, especially in Berwick for example!

    Probably ignore it, the Conservatives are Unionist and would probably not want to do anything to upset that. Although some might quietly be happy with an independant Scotland.
     
  18. Biohazard

    PermaBanned

    Joined: Aug 29, 2003

    Posts: 31,334

    I agree, Scot's who have left should have no say.

    The people who live in Scotland should.



    But, they made a statement in about an up coming review on the issue in Westminster.

    Rid of the pesky Scot's once and for all? ;)
     
  19. VoG

    Soldato

    Joined: Jan 20, 2004

    Posts: 5,691

    Location: Nottingham

    either born in Scotland, or of a Scottish parent ( singular ). the need for both parents would unfairly rule out anyone who loses a parent at birth ( pre-birth in the fathers case ).
     
  20. RDM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 20,211

    I will believe they will do anything about it when I see it to be honest. I really don't think they are arrogant enough yet to think they can just irritate the Scots again (give it another couple of terms without those pesky Lib Dems and they probably will be!). I could of course be wrong and they are just thinking "Meh, Scotland is never going to vote Conservative again anyway, lets stuff em".

    Well, it would certianly improve their chances in Westminster, Labour would have a massive hill to climb without Scotland behind them.

    As an aside how do you personally see an independant Scotland working? Would you also ditch the Queen? Leave the EU? Would you envisage the same sort of free movement relationship as Ireland has? How do you think Scotland should deal with it's current state dependancy?