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Section 75 Claims - New Cars

Discussion in 'Motors' started by kaktus, Jan 4, 2019.

  1. deaglecat

    Gangster

    Joined: Mar 10, 2007

    Posts: 496

    I rejected a car with an annoying noise that was a "design characteristic". I faxed the dealership notification of my rejection (so that I had a receipt that they had received it) and explained the fault, I then walked into the dealership and handed them the keys.

    The next day, I got a courtesy car for the 6 weeks or so that it took them to diagnose and replace the faulty part.

    Never got a refund.. but did get it sorted.
     
  2. kaktus

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 28, 2003

    Posts: 1,123

    Thank you everyone for your contributions and help, especially @Housey.

    Just an update - I have been in touch with the Dealer Principal of the Selling Dealership. He is considering to replace my car with a different used car. I get that my vehicle is technically used now but I specified it, selected it, bought it and took care of it. Why should I have to settle for someone else's used car and be the second owner after all of this? Surely if it is a replacement, should it not be replaced for a new vehicle or am i being unreasonable?

     
  3. kindai

    Soldato

    Joined: Aug 9, 2013

    Posts: 5,667

    Location: Bromsgrove

    His point "I will look to see if a newer and less mileage car of the same model is available." I think is extremely reasonable of him, id take him on that offer, even if its not to your personal spec. Owners, dont care.
     
  4. kaktus

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 28, 2003

    Posts: 1,123

    Oh I don't think he had a choice there. I have one of handful of Cactus EAT6 platinum grey models in the country (the colour and gearbox were introduced about 3 months before the car was phased out entirely and replaced with the new cactus in Dec 2017). So I think it would be really hard if not impossible to get an exact replacement.
     
  5. Housey

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Feb 21, 2006

    Posts: 26,220

    Location: England

    Glad it seems to be heading in the right direction and glad you followed my suggested approach, which seems to be working well for you.

    DP seems reasonable and pragmatic, a good starting point and gut feel, he will look after you.
     
  6. Housey

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Feb 21, 2006

    Posts: 26,220

    Location: England

    Sorry, quoted wrongly. As you were men.
     
  7. kaktus

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 28, 2003

    Posts: 1,123

    Thanks Housey, your advice has been excellent so far. Genuinely appreciated. Let's see what he comes back with as I am still not convinced I shouldn't just be pressing for a refund or insisting on replacement for a new vehicle. Maybe he offers something I can at least sell for more than I would've got for mine.

    He sent a sarcastic email with a screenshot of his name and email address posted on his website (to be fair a bit obscure but it is there) and saying :
    "how much easier than this do you want it to be?" after my last lengthy email to him. I was about to write "ok mike, I've tried to be nice about this but if your approach is to respond with sarcasm and an attempt to belittle then down the route of S75 we go". His follow-up email about the replacement car came in 0.1 seconds before I was about to hit Send :eek:
     
  8. muon

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 8, 2006

    Posts: 17,043

    Unfortunately from his side you can see that realistically you should have been dealing with them the entire time. You need to give them time to work out a solution.

    As he states your contract is with them and so you may have trouble with a S75 without giving them a chance.
     
  9. Housey

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Feb 21, 2006

    Posts: 26,220

    Location: England

    The last discussion is always the important one, that sets the tone, the ones before are just getting to the last one. Speak to him Monday, get him onside and get it sorted.
     
  10. Housey

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Feb 21, 2006

    Posts: 26,220

    Location: England

    As a general point for future reference, when it involves anything like this the selling dealer is the first point of call. Give them the chance (no more than 2-3 goes) and then if needs be bring the DP into the discussion. When I had issues with my R8 I took it to another dealer even though it was part of the same group. They were not happy to work on the car as they knew I was considering rejecting the car (I told them) and had been down the route with my RS4, which they sold me. My thinking was 2nd pair of eyes looking at the issue, but the Service Manager didn't want to get involved. It was at that point I put it to group level and Audi CEO office in Milton Keynes and few days later, fixed.
     
  11. muon

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 8, 2006

    Posts: 17,043

    Ultimately all civil law is backed by the threat of courts. The question is if the OP goes in front of a judge today to claim compensation (which as you've said previously would only be the market value), how well would that judge take to the defendant (the selling dealer) not being given a reasonable chance to solve the complaint.

    I have experienced independent dealers being taken to small claims court and it's not easy even when the dealer is completely in the wrong.
     
  12. kaktus

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 28, 2003

    Posts: 1,123

    I can see that now but realistically how would that work when the selling dealership is 210 miles away? imagine it has to go back and forth 2-3 times, let alone 20-25 times as it did with Citroen Edgware. Delivery each way is £360. How would you manage the logistics of that? They certainly wouldn't pay to have the car brought back and forth each time no?
     
  13. muon

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 8, 2006

    Posts: 17,043

    Did they deliver the car to you or did you collect?

    It'd be nice of them to collect the car, but I don't believe they are obligated to do so.

    It's like buying something from a particular store (say a wall clock from IKEA) and telling them to take the faulty goods from your house.
     
  14. kaktus

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 28, 2003

    Posts: 1,123

    Yes I understand that but as I mentioned several times, his own representative and Citroen Customer Care both advised against that. So realistically or not, the customer was told not to do that. It can't then be he customer's fault that he or she has been dealing with the wrong party this whole time.
     
  15. kaktus

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 28, 2003

    Posts: 1,123

    d
    Delivered to me for £360. I think it's different when we are talking about consumer goods as they typically don't have this issue. i.e. I buy something from CPW I don't have to go back to that particular CPW to resolve the problem.
     
  16. muon

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 8, 2006

    Posts: 17,043

    That would be a strong argument. Whether it is definitive, I'm not so sure.

    I think you even got from the emails, the DP was surprised at that comment.

    edit:

    I think you should ask for them to collect the car (for free) and to organise a courtesy car. You should also have a pre-agreed timeline whereby they either have the vehicle repaired or arrange a suitable swap. I think 4 weeks would be reasonable.

    Then your S75 or court action would be much stronger.

    If you win in court you will get what you paid minus the value in actual use that you got. This is likely to be higher than the market value if as you say you couldn't use the car a lot of the time (or at least didn't get the right utility from it).
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  17. kaktus

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 28, 2003

    Posts: 1,123

     
  18. kaktus

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Jul 28, 2003

    Posts: 1,123

    Ok, I'll wait to see what DP comes back with on Monday and go from there.
     
  19. sansnom

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 14, 2004

    Posts: 1,093

    Location: London

    Is it? I can't see why OP should have to accept a used car replacement. I would be pushing for a full refund or replacement with brand new like for like model. Maybe you could ask for just the cash value of the used replacement vehicle to avoid having to be second owner on a car you didn't ask for or want. To be honest reading through those emails I can't see how your case is not rock solid.
     
  20. jpaul

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 5,918

    I thought that was the deal/risk with brokers like carwow, you have a good price but if there are problems communication cost can be present.

    Talking to the guy can only help, I found there were several barbed/accusatory comments in the email you sent him too - prepare an agenda for such a phone call.
    I guess you had a loaner car during the 4-5months, otherwise, I guess, you would have included that in the email.

    cash value, with deduction for usage sounds the most expediant outcome, rather than continuing a long distance 'relationship' with the dealer.
    Possibility of obtaining an Independant engineers report too, is still, something I might discuss with Mike.