Ships under attack in the middle east

Caporegime
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We were referencing the middle east within this context.

However, Persian, Arab, Jewish, it matters little.

Actually in military terms it makes a huge difference! There's a reason that Israel have repeatedly kicked the crap out of those that tried to invade vs those invaders who repeatedly have the crap kicked out of them by everyone.

https://www.meforum.org/441/why-arabs-lose-wars

Worth a read.
 
Caporegime
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We were referencing the middle east within this context.

However, Persian, Arab, Jewish, it matters little.

You've gotta be kidding, the difference in level of competence of the Israelis vs the typical Arab army is huge.

Not that all Arab army's are incompetent - Jordan is a notable exception and has a well trained, professional force. Some other countries in the region are LOL-worthy though - lots of nepotism and incompetence, tribal politics, enlisted personnel treated like **** there is a whole load of very backwards cultural baggage to deal with in some of these places.
 

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Soldato
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Actually in military terms it makes a huge difference! There's a reason that Israel have repeatedly kicked the crap out of those that tried to invade vs those invaders who repeatedly have the crap kicked out of them by everyone.

https://www.meforum.org/441/why-arabs-lose-wars

Worth a read.

It matters quite a bit.


You've gotta be kidding, the difference in level of competence of the Israelis vs the typical Arab army is huge.

Not that all Arab army's are incompetent - Jordan is a notable exception and has a well trained, professional force. Some other countries in the region are LOL-worthy though - lots of nepotism and incompetence, tribal politics, enlisted personnel treated like **** there is a whole load of very backwards cultural baggage to deal with in some of these places.

Your last paragraph containing the exception would show that it does actually matter little. Concentrating on the region and grouping in militarial incompetence is nothing more than stereotyping a vast area and contrast of people.

Roff initially said
Although the problems with military efficiency in that part of the world is more complex than that.
Which is where my comment mainly focused.
 
Caporegime
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Your last paragraph containing the exception would show that it does actually matter little. Concentrating on the region and grouping in militarial incompetence is nothing more than stereotyping a vast area and contrast of people.

The exception doesn't show that because it is that... an exception!
 
Soldato
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Actually in military terms it makes a huge difference! There's a reason that Israel have repeatedly kicked the crap out of those that tried to invade vs those invaders who repeatedly have the crap kicked out of them by everyone.

https://www.meforum.org/441/why-arabs-lose-wars

Worth a read.
Basically the Crux of it, to be honest I'm more surprised Israel is as restrained as it is, hundreds of rockets launched at their citizens and threats of annihilation, the US has used nukes for less.
 
Soldato
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Iran isn't anything like Iraq and nor is it's military, this video here explains the major points, while am 100% sure we would win the fight, it be Iraq 2 and Afghanistan 2 but worst than both of them, it be a real nightmare.

 
Man of Honour
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Iran isn't anything like Iraq and nor is it's military, this video here explains the major points, while am 100% sure we would win the fight, it be Iraq 2 and Afghanistan 2 but worst than both of them, it be a real nightmare.

Ultimately Iran has no way of taking the attack to Western military production (other than individual cases of isolated sabotage/terrorism) while those arrayed against them can bomb Iran's military production and to a degree any re-supply they might get from external backers at relative will.

I think if any war did kick off the US/SA will likely underestimate Iran again and initial confrontation would be bloody with many stupid and needless losses but ultimately I suspect that the tide would quickly turn against Iran.

Unlike Iraq where the vast majority of the armed forces had zero motivation to fight Iran does have a larger number of hardline forces who wouldn't just roll over at the first sounds of gunfire.
 
Soldato
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Some youtube footage of the latest apparent Saudi setback:

(warning briefly shows graphic footage on occasion)


Setting fire to captured hardware rather than using it to further your own plans just about sums up why these cretins are totally **** at fighting a war. That and the fact that they just blindly spray ammo in the rough direction of the enemy and then pray that Allah guides the bullets. Bunch of ******* idiots, the lot of them.
 
Soldato
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Ultimately Iran has no way of taking the attack to Western military production (other than individual cases of isolated sabotage/terrorism) while those arrayed against them can bomb Iran's military production and to a degree any re-supply they might get from external backers at relative will.

I think if any war did kick off the US/SA will likely underestimate Iran again and initial confrontation would be bloody with many stupid and needless losses but ultimately I suspect that the tide would quickly turn against Iran.

Unlike Iraq where the vast majority of the armed forces had zero motivation to fight Iran does have a larger number of hardline forces who wouldn't just roll over at the first sounds of gunfire.
It's a shame we're at this point where we're discussing the real possibility of a conflict with Iran. I guess the Persian and SA standoff has long been coming to a head though, it's pretty much prophesied.
 
Caporegime
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Ultimately Iran has no way of taking the attack to Western military production (other than individual cases of isolated sabotage/terrorism) while those arrayed against them can bomb Iran's military production and to a degree any re-supply they might get from external backers at relative will.

I think if any war did kick off the US/SA will likely underestimate Iran again and initial confrontation would be bloody with many stupid and needless losses but ultimately I suspect that the tide would quickly turn against Iran.

Unlike Iraq where the vast majority of the armed forces had zero motivation to fight Iran does have a larger number of hardline forces who wouldn't just roll over at the first sounds of gunfire.

That's the whole point, Iran has constantly reminded America that if they array themselves against Iran violently, that the numerous US bases surrounding them will be immediately attacked (missiles, bombs, hundreds of terror cells all ready to go at any moment), likely preemptively if they have intel.

Iran knows it'll lose, it's all about making sure that the body count is in the many thousands to stop the US from moving in (in the first place), with the fatigue from Iraq and Afghanistan, there's just no way the US can justify that level of death to their voters who already have to deal with thousands of PTSD inflicted veterans who barely get any help from the supposed pro-military GOP.

The fact that there hasn't been a war over the numerous entirely legitimate events, is a testament to this.

I can't currently figure out what the attack on the refinery is meant to prove, assuming it is legitimately Iran, which seems likely, then clearly the US defence shield is either utterly **** or non-existent.
 
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Soldato
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That and the fact that they just blindly spray ammo in the rough direction of the enemy and then pray that Allah guides the bullets. Bunch of ******* idiots, the lot of them.

I'm not even making this up but so many genuinely do have the following mentality out here - It's "Allah's Will" whether your bullets hit anything so you would be insulting him should you fire accurate aimed fire at something because, if Allah wanted a bullet to hit something, he would guide it, not you - Even the majority of "trained" troops have out here in Saudi think like this! That sort of attitude to almost everything sure makes training them interesting.
 
Soldato
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I can't currently figure out what the attack on the refinery is meant to prove, assuming it is legitimately Iran, which seems likely, then clearly the US defence shield is either utterly **** or non-existent.

Tit for tat America makes sure its oil can't be sold so this a desperate attempt at retalition they can't hit the americans directly so they go for their proxy instead. Also its likely its the Revolutionary Guards who are behind this like the attacks on shipping in the Gulf they're a law unto themselves and are both aggresive and militant its unlikely this was directly sanctioned by the govt though they may have given tacit approval or at least the Supreme Spriritual Leader may have done, politics in Iran is not straighforward with more than one faction vying for power.

It's a shame we're at this point where we're discussing the real possibility of a conflict with Iran. I guess the Persian and SA standoff has long been coming to a head though, it's pretty much prophesied.

And the point is it all completely stupid and a direct result of Trump and Republicans in general wishing to humiliate Iran and destroy its economy for no good reason other than the fact they're not sympathetic to american interests in the area. Yet more death and destruction all for the sake of power and influence.
 
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