Soldato
Excuse me? At what point have I said it's not my problem?
Should bullying at schools be a criminal offence?
- Thread starter tenofspades
- Start date
Excuse me? At what point have I said it's not my problem?
Caporegime
No comment on the actual punishment from the law but surely any resistance to say bullying is not a crime means bullying should be accepted daily practice.
Should we therefore encourage it if there is no deterrent to discourage it. Clearly telling kids to stop is never going to work.
May be skip the criminal part, just tie the culprits naked to a pole and throw eggs at them for the day. Get Biblical? You only need 1 be made an example out of and the bullying will stop.
Right? Of course that’s not the right thing to do.
I don’t think “they are just kids” is an excuse for bad behaviour, certainly not consistent and prolonged bullying. If it’s your kid getting his head kicked in at school, you want the bully to be punished too right?. If there is no punishment, then there is no consequence. People (and kids) needs to learn from a young age that their action have consequences. Right? The consequences might not be £45k fine or 10 years in prison, again, that’s down to smarter people to determine, like a judge to determine the level of punishment. But you cannot just turn a blind eye and say “it builds character”, it also builds character of the bully too, for him to think he can do bad things without punishment, even when caught. What kind of character does that build?
I understand the thinking of “oh you need to get tough, life is tough, be a man, grow some balls”. What’s next? Ask him to punch back? Ask him to keep taking the kicking throughout school? Or should there be a strong enough deterrent so that people do not commit the act in the first place?
I think that to resist to criminalise bullying is akin to encourage it. All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing. To do nothing for bullying…
Should we therefore encourage it if there is no deterrent to discourage it. Clearly telling kids to stop is never going to work.
May be skip the criminal part, just tie the culprits naked to a pole and throw eggs at them for the day. Get Biblical? You only need 1 be made an example out of and the bullying will stop.
Right? Of course that’s not the right thing to do.
I don’t think “they are just kids” is an excuse for bad behaviour, certainly not consistent and prolonged bullying. If it’s your kid getting his head kicked in at school, you want the bully to be punished too right?. If there is no punishment, then there is no consequence. People (and kids) needs to learn from a young age that their action have consequences. Right? The consequences might not be £45k fine or 10 years in prison, again, that’s down to smarter people to determine, like a judge to determine the level of punishment. But you cannot just turn a blind eye and say “it builds character”, it also builds character of the bully too, for him to think he can do bad things without punishment, even when caught. What kind of character does that build?
I understand the thinking of “oh you need to get tough, life is tough, be a man, grow some balls”. What’s next? Ask him to punch back? Ask him to keep taking the kicking throughout school? Or should there be a strong enough deterrent so that people do not commit the act in the first place?
I think that to resist to criminalise bullying is akin to encourage it. All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing. To do nothing for bullying…
Last edited:
Soldato
- Joined
- 7 Jan 2009
- Posts
- 6,369
I think fines should be sent out to parents, Then parents should correct the kids behaviour.
Too many parents are lazy these days when it comes to actually bringing up their kids with respect.
Too many parents are lazy these days when it comes to actually bringing up their kids with respect.
Associate
- Joined
- 20 Mar 2014
- Posts
- 2,359
Good, I was bullied on the school bus. lock the ***** up.
Damn. That's brutal. I don't remember girls like that in the mid 90s in school.
Soldato
Yes it should be. Parents should also be liable.
The schools should be liable as well.
The schools should be liable as well.
Associate
- Joined
- 20 Mar 2014
- Posts
- 2,359
Exactly, if they did it out of school it would be a police matter, same if they were adults, there is no excuse for children causing misery to other children. It needs stopping.
Soldato
I totally agree.
There's a couple things, here.
1. Recently society has decided that parents must not smack their kids, and that it should be considered assault as it would were the recipient an adult.
2. Because of 1, then any instance of a child physically bullying another child must also be assault, purely for consistency. You can't criminalise smacking and then allow kids hitting each other, as it would make no sense. It's either assault or it's not.
So it follows then that you have to start going after kids with assault charges. On the one hand, they aren't fully mentally developed, but on the other hand, they do know how to follow rules and act in their own self-interest, from quite a young age.
Do you go after the parents or the kids themselves?
Some kids are ****holes because their parents are ****holes, I think we all know kids like this from our own childhoods. So perhaps going after the parents is the way forwards. But then maybe not, because abusive adults aren't all that likely to change their ways. Normally the best you can hope for is that karma bites them in the ass, hard.
And we know what taking kids away from their biological parents is a touchy subject. But seriously, how many ****hole kids don't have at least one ****hole parent?
Agreed. It used to be that home was a safe haven away from the bullies but nowadays there will doubtless be a snapchat group or whatever sharing photoshopped pics of someone, or a video of them being bullied, urinated on or whatever. Those getting bullied will suffer more exclusion whilst simultaneously re-enforcing the acts of the bullies. I mean when I was at school, people probably told jokes at my expense behind my back but I'd be oblivious to most them and only a small number of people would hear them rather than the whole year.
Even leaving genuine bullying to one side it must be a horrible environment for 'outcasts' to grow up in, conversations at school dominated by something shared on the chat group that nearly everyone except them is a member of, people laughing at the fact they only have 8 friends on whatever social media site compared to others with 100+. There's probably peer pressure to make them even more excluded, i.e. the 'midrange' kids that want to fit in with the cool gang aren't going to add the outcasts on their social media for fear of being mocked.
I could be wide of the mark as it is difficult to judge (hardly anyone had the internet when I was at school) but I can see it being a nightmare for some kids these days. I was subject to minor bullying at various times over my disability, but I could largely avoid/ignore it.
Soldato
Criminal offence is probably too far but fines probably would work in certain cases
Shamefully I was a bit of a bully and a group of us would bully this one kid in middle school, school did quite a lot to stop it but honestly we were relentless even after having a sit down with the kid and his parents. Something I regret to this day, at the time as kids it was nothing only when you get older you realise.
im pretty certain our group would have stopped if parents got fined and we got a clip round the ears for it.
Shamefully I was a bit of a bully and a group of us would bully this one kid in middle school, school did quite a lot to stop it but honestly we were relentless even after having a sit down with the kid and his parents. Something I regret to this day, at the time as kids it was nothing only when you get older you realise.
im pretty certain our group would have stopped if parents got fined and we got a clip round the ears for it.
Soldato
That doesn't happen now. It's illegal to smack. And hit a kid in the head... asking for prison time there.
Assualt, harassment, ABH etc.. are already illegal - I don't see why there need be some new offence of "bullying" - it seems like a bit of pointless virtue signalling (similar in some ways to wanting to make "hate crime" a thing etc..).
Generally, bullying is something a school should deal with, adding in a new criminal offence when 99.9% of bullying cases won't involve existing criminal charges is rather futile. If a case of bullying gets the point where say a teenager is seriously injured after being physically attacked by another then the police could already be called and existing legislation already exists to deal with that.
Lots of bullying is more likely to involve name-calling, teasing etc... and more minor physical stuff that schools should be able to handle.
I guess if they want to introduce criminal offences in relation to schools not dealing with bullying then that perhaps is a different matter - a legal obligation to have certain measures in place, reporting requirements, follow-ups etc.. might perhaps be useful. Extra criminal charges to potentially throw at kids themselves on the other hand, nope!
Generally, bullying is something a school should deal with, adding in a new criminal offence when 99.9% of bullying cases won't involve existing criminal charges is rather futile. If a case of bullying gets the point where say a teenager is seriously injured after being physically attacked by another then the police could already be called and existing legislation already exists to deal with that.
Lots of bullying is more likely to involve name-calling, teasing etc... and more minor physical stuff that schools should be able to handle.
I guess if they want to introduce criminal offences in relation to schools not dealing with bullying then that perhaps is a different matter - a legal obligation to have certain measures in place, reporting requirements, follow-ups etc.. might perhaps be useful. Extra criminal charges to potentially throw at kids themselves on the other hand, nope!
Soldato
Edit: Double post.
Soldato
Offence.
Soldato
- Joined
- 27 Mar 2013
- Posts
- 9,142
Naa it's only a problem if it bruises
. Even though I'm too young to have had the cane at school (I'm 35), I believe it kept kids in check. I don't care what anyone says, violence is the most effect form of discipline. If not we wouldn't need an army. I'm not sure we ever had any kids stamping on other kids heads, but then again who knows going on the post above.
Soldato
Bullies never prosper, so the saying goes. By all accounts the people that bullied me aren't doing very well now, so karma was served without the need for a change in the law.
Soldato
Really? Trump did well for himself.
Soldato
Naa it's only a problem if it bruises
The problem with smacking kids is that it teaches them that violence gets results. Kids then use that against other kids, it's not a good way to deal with the bullying issue.
That's pretty much why it's banned the world over.