Should goverment fines/penalties be set in conjuntion to how much you earn ?

Things change I've changed · 15 Jan 2008 at 08:17

Purely theoretical of course as I imagine the infrastructure to implement this kind of system would be very complex.

Do you think the amount you get fined should be set according to how much you earn ?, I can't help feeling that it would be the most fair thing to do really because the effect it has on a low-income earner is greater than a high earner so simply put the punishment that either class (low/mid/high) endures because of their mistake is not the same, take prison for example, rich or poor the punishment is equal, you both have to endure that same conditions for the same period of time, perfectly fair, but the effects a small fine can cause on a low income earner compared to a high income earner can be drastically different, I've seen some good people with family's suffer hard because of fines, for some it can change their lives, for a high earner the fine is the same but the punishment is not,

what are your thoughts on this.

Dark88 · 15 Jan 2008 at 08:22

Seems fine to me really. I don't suppose it would be that hard to work out if they got together and made a nice database with the inland revenue. Apart from the fixed penalty notice type things for some fines can't a judge/magistrate decide how much you pay? Wonder if personal wealth does go in to any decision they make.

Clinkz · 15 Jan 2008 at 08:22

lowrider007 said:
Purely theoretical of course as I imagine the infrastructure to implement this kind of system would be very complex.

Do you think the amount you get fined should be set according to how much you earn ?, I can't help feeling that it would be the most fair thing to do really because the effect it has on a low-income earner person is greater than a high earner so simply put the punishment that either class (low/mid/high) endures because of their mistake is not the same, take prison for example, rich or poor the punishment is equal, you both have to endure that same conditions for the same period of time, perfectly fair, but the effects a small fine can cause on a low income earner compared to a high income earner can be drastically different, I've seen some good people with family's suffer hard because of fines, for some it can change their lives, for a high earner the fine is the same but the punishment is not,

what are your thoughts on this.

Prison isnt the best example to lean on because its not really all that fair is it. People with a high enough profile are able to afford the best lawers whos job it is to keep them out of prison.

Dark88 · 15 Jan 2008 at 08:23

Clinkz said:
Prison isnt the best example to lean on because its not really all that fair is it. People with a high enough profile are able to afford the best lawers whos job it is to keep them out of prison.

Or People with a lot of money only have to serve a fraction of their sentence. Paris Hilton anyone? Heard about another celeb who was sentenced to 60days for breaking probation or something similar... Think she served about 16 in the end.

Zuma · 15 Jan 2008 at 08:25

what about people with no income? do they have to pay any fine?

also by your argument i would say that prison affects rich people more than poor people because their life is altered the most by being in jail. for some really poor people jail is a relief because they don't have to worry about finding food or a place to live.

Dark88 · 15 Jan 2008 at 08:30

Zuma said:
what about people with no income? do they have to pay any fine?

also by your argument i would say that prison affects rich people more than poor people because their life is altered the most by being in jail. for some really poor people jail is a relief because they don't have to worry about finding food or a place to live.

do you mean people on benefits? or homeless people with no income? I always thought if you couldn't pay the fine then you had to do the time...

andyp · 15 Jan 2008 at 08:30

Yes it should depend on how much you earn.

There's a typical M3 owner round our way who parks everywhere he shouldn't, at all sorts of crazy angles. Thinks nothing of blocking people in or leaving his car in the middle of the road while he 'nips off' (twenty minutes) to get a sandwich or newspaper.

His parking fines should be commensurate with the value of his car.

And he needs his face kicking off, the smarmy southern git.

Things change I've changed · 15 Jan 2008 at 08:32

Zuma said:
what about people with no income? do they have to pay any fine?

No of course not, you could for example have a banding system put into place for low/mid/high earners, a band for each class, obviously the unemployed would come under 'low'.

also by your argument i would say that prison affects rich people more than poor people because their life is altered the most by being in jail. for some really poor people jail is a relief because they don't have to worry about finding food or a place to live.

Being altered the most doesn't necessarily mean that your suffering the most, oh and for some poor/homeless people jail is never a relief, it's just a necessarily evil that you have to endure to get off the streets.

Things change I've changed · 15 Jan 2008 at 13:18

Clinkz said:
Prison isnt the best example to lean on because its not really all that fair is it. People with a high enough profile are able to afford the best lawers whos job it is to keep them out of prison.

Either way it's doesn't nullify my original question, do you think fines should be set according to our income ?

Tefal · 15 Jan 2008 at 13:23

lowrider007 said:
Being altered the most doesn't necessarily mean that your suffering the most, oh and for some poor/homeless people jail is never a relief, it's just a necessarily evil that you have to endure to get off the streets.

but a rich person's time is more valuable, as they would lose a lot more money by being in prison and in some professions their job career/business too.

oh and no the fines shouldn't be judged on wealth justice is supposed to be blind.

Things change I've changed · 15 Jan 2008 at 13:30

Tefal said:
but a rich person's time is more valuable, as they would lose a lot more money by being in prison and in some professions their job career/business too.

Whats losing allot more money got to do with anything, I mean suffering as in going into debt and not being able to provide for your children, getting caught in an endless cycle, do you think most of these high profile millionaires that end up in prison come out skint ?, or even lesser rich company directors, they may have allot to lose but their not usually homeless when they come out of prison, it's typical of this forum, "oh the poor rich, suffering on all fronts"

, ah well anyway I made a bad comparison in my OP, I didn't release that it was going to take the thread of track even though it doesn't really effect the question that was proposed.

Tefal · 15 Jan 2008 at 13:39

lowrider007 said:
Whats losing allot more money got to do with anything, I mean suffering as in going into debt and not being able to provide for your children, getting caught in an endless cycle, do you think most of these high profile millionaires that end up in prison come out skint ?, or even lesser rich company directors, they may have allot to lose but there not usually homeless when they come out of prison, it's typical of this forum, "oh the poor rich, suffering on all fronts" , ah well anyway I made a bad comparison in my OP, I didn't release that it was going to take the thread of track even though it doesn't really effect the question that was proposed.

well then i have no idea what the hell your on about, you say what has losing money go to do with anything then go on to talk about debt etc.

But as for fines why the hell should you be punished more for having more in life?

It would turn the whole justice system into a complete biased farce, you are judged on the crime, and the punishments you can receives are set down already. Do you not think that there would be one of the biggest backlashes ever if the government suddenly decided it could pick on one minority more than the others? only difference this time is that he minority is separated by its earning power not its race.

Things change I've changed · 15 Jan 2008 at 14:04

Tefal said:
But as for fines why the hell should you be punished more for having more in life?

Why should people be punished more for having less in life?.

It would turn the whole justice system into a complete biased farce,

Why would it, atm you have rich people that get fined £50, they pay the fine with no ill effects, you have a low income earner that is living to his/her means, they cannot afford to pay the fine, the fine is then increased and extra charges are incurred, next thing you know the debt collectors are around taking everything they own or there is an attachment of earning made on their wages so they now can barely afford to live, and you say thats fair because they are a low income earner ?.

Do you not think that there would be one of the biggest backlashes ever if the government suddenly decided it could pick on one minority more than the others?

isn't that already the case atm though, the rich have to pay higher rates of tax because hey earn more, are you saying there being targeted as a minority, of course not because the rate of tax you pay is variable, I hardly see any big backlash here, and anyway I'm not talking about picking on one minority, I'm talking about a fine that is set at variable rate that changes depending on your income, so it's targeted at the everyone, from the poor to the middle class and right up to the higher class.

OSB · 15 Jan 2008 at 14:06

Surely the fact that such a fine would have less of an impact on a wealthier person is a luxury they experience due to their working harder (not saying this is always the case) to obtain their wealth?

Combat squirrel · 15 Jan 2008 at 14:10

andyp said:
Yes it should depend on how much you earn.

There's a typical M3 owner round our way who parks everywhere he shouldn't, at all sorts of crazy angles. Thinks nothing of blocking people in or leaving his car in the middle of the road while he 'nips off' (twenty minutes) to get a sandwich or newspaper.

His parking fines should be commensurate with the value of his car.

And he needs his face kicking off, the smarmy southern git.

Fine him, using your car key

oh and dent the door, cost a lot more to sort that out on an M3 than a cheap car

snowdog · 15 Jan 2008 at 14:11

No, if someone works hard then he/she should be able to just always drive a few miles too fast if willing to pay, the traffic laws are rubbish anyway.

Things change I've changed · 15 Jan 2008 at 14:21

OSB said:
Surely the fact that such a fine would have less of an impact on a wealthier person is a luxury they experience due to their working harder (not saying this is always the case) to obtain their wealth?

so your saying that being rich entitles you to be above the law (almost), to not have to endure punishments as much as lower earners or even middle class earners have to endure for that fact ?, the luxury of being rich is that you can break the law with no real repercussions then.

snowdog said:
No, if someone works hard then he/she should be able to just always drive a few miles too fast if willing to pay, the traffic laws are rubbish anyway.

what do you mean "if someone works hard", you saying that low income earners don't work hard ?.

Tefal · 15 Jan 2008 at 14:21

lowrider007 said:
Why should people be punished more for having less in life?.

.. they aren't their given the same fine, should we perhaps then give longer prison scentances to poor people as it costs them less?

If they can't afford the fine, they shouldn't do the crime.

Tefal · 15 Jan 2008 at 14:24

lowrider007 said:
so your saying that being rich entitles you to be above the law (almost), to not have to endure punishments as much as lower earners or even middle class earners have to endure for that fact ?, the luxury of being rich is that you can break the law with no real repercussions then.

you get exactly the same punishment, regardless of your race, creed, gender, name, appearance, wealth, sexual preference.

If any government dared to try and change that then, i hope to god that their would be a quick dismissal, and our equivalent of an impeachment.

To judge a person on anything other than their crime/mental state, is against the very reason for law.

MrMoonX · 15 Jan 2008 at 14:40

great then all the pikees with no income that isnt cash in hand and are on benefits will be parking where they like, cos the fines would be cheap