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Should NHS doctors and nurses be paid more?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by ver01@, Mar 7, 2019.

  1. ver01@

    Gangster

    Joined: Aug 7, 2017

    Posts: 369

    Would this solve the retainment problem? Two more GP surgeries closed in my area due to "staffing". I assume they mean doctors but seems hospitals have similar issues with nursing staff shortages.
     
  2. Stretch

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 14, 2004

    Posts: 11,254

    Location: Cambridge

    There's little point in paying more without investing in training, which also ins't a quick fix.

    With the economy at virtually full employment, there is also a question mark over where these extra staff are going to come from in the short, medium and long term. We have a shortage of most workers, right across the spectrum. If they raise wages to attract/retain staff, we're no better off.
     
  3. Buddy

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Sep 7, 2009

    Posts: 1,495

    Location: London

    I don't think the issue is so much pay. Its the work load, bureaucracy, unreasonable patient expectation, funding for services and constant changing of goal posts set by the government. No one wants to be a partner let alone a salaried GP.

    There has been a new GP contract agreed recently. One major development is crown indemnity for GPs. For years hospital doctors have been covered and have medical defense indemnity costing a few hundred.

    Mine has been increasing annually. This year I paid £8k. Some of my older colleagues pay 10k a year. Crown indemnity means that this should fall to around £1k (!). That's a couple of hundred pounds a month extra for me.

    New contract has shifted around some goal posts again. Still awaiting more details.
     
  4. ver01@

    Gangster

    Joined: Aug 7, 2017

    Posts: 369

    How will this work if nobody wants to follow that career path?
     
  5. ver01@

    Gangster

    Joined: Aug 7, 2017

    Posts: 369

    If my salary was doubled and i was finding my work load too much etc i would be more than happy to reduce my working hours with a salary cut.
     
  6. Buddy

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Sep 7, 2009

    Posts: 1,495

    Location: London

    Yes but that's not really going to happen is it. There are jobs out there that pay a lot but take your soul yet it's not everyone's cup of tea.

    I think a job is more than just money. People don't become doctors to become rich. You could do a lot less for a lot more in other professions.
     
  7. Minstadave

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 8, 2004

    Posts: 24,069

    Location: Rutland

    Pensions are a really big issue at the moment. Both annual and life time allowance currently penalise GPs and Consultants doing extra work.

    Colleagues are retiring early and others cutting their workload to avoid massive tax bills and punitive tax rates.
     
  8. Colonel_Klinck

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 3, 2007

    Posts: 595

    Location: London, UK

    Nurses certainly. The work they do especially in hospitals is incredible. I've spent a few weeks in hospital at several times in my life and their dedication is amazing. Never did I have cause to complain about my care from them.
     
  9. Minstadave

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 8, 2004

    Posts: 24,069

    Location: Rutland

    Nursing recruitment is a major issue. Would love to see greater investment in training and retaining nursing staff.
     
  10. ver01@

    Gangster

    Joined: Aug 7, 2017

    Posts: 369

    But it's happening already. There is no cap in locum payments and still shifts are left uncovered etc.
     
  11. ver01@

    Gangster

    Joined: Aug 7, 2017

    Posts: 369

    Same issue. Who would want to train when career prospects, work/life balance and financial rewards are poor?
     
  12. Minstadave

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 8, 2004

    Posts: 24,069

    Location: Rutland

    Locum pay is a symptom of a broken system. If we out more effort into training, valuing and retaining permanent staff this would sort itself out.

    The NHS is run poorly. We keep on cutting staffing, pension benefits, rotas get thinner, training lost to service provision that it makes it harder to get people to stay.
     
  13. flea.rider

    Hitman

    Joined: Aug 7, 2017

    Posts: 590

    I remember a time when I could phone the doc in the morning and be in at 4:30 ...now I phone and it's 2 months ..
    so yeah we really do need to bring in new blood ..I don't often go to the doc's 3 yrs or so ..
    but last week my guts played up and I knew I needed anti-biotic's no food or drink kept down for 4 days ..
    so went walk in .. they sent me to the apu ? at the hospital which sent me to a&e and 3 hrs later had a surgeon look at me .. to say the least he was ****** off .. so I told him I only went for anti-biotic's and they played pass the parcel
    he shook his head and smiled .. hooked me up to a drip sent me home 4 hrs later with a bag of antibiotics ..

    so this is the problem being escalated without any need .. I know my condition I know what I need .. so why send me up the ladder when theres no need ?
    these guy's are very busy with sick people so why add to it ..
     
  14. flea.rider

    Hitman

    Joined: Aug 7, 2017

    Posts: 590

    whats a nurse on ? 22k ? and up ?
    doctors ? 35-40k ...
    cant see much wrong with that ..
     
  15. Minstadave

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 8, 2004

    Posts: 24,069

    Location: Rutland

    Problem is there aren't enough of either. Even with the pay. Those figures are conservative too.

    Add to that we are penalised for working more even if we want too.
     
  16. ver01@

    Gangster

    Joined: Aug 7, 2017

    Posts: 369

    If there is nothing wrong with that why are they leaving?
     
  17. Minstadave

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 8, 2004

    Posts: 24,069

    Location: Rutland

    Antibiotics for diarrhoea?
     
  18. Freakbro

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 29, 2010

    Posts: 14,457

    Location: Lincs

    What do you mean?
     
  19. ver01@

    Gangster

    Joined: Aug 7, 2017

    Posts: 369

    I believe that after a particular salary point if you work more you end up getting paid less!
     
  20. Minstadave

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 8, 2004

    Posts: 24,069

    Location: Rutland

    I mentioned it above. Consultants are currently running into punitive taxation due to the annual allowance and lifetime allowance caps on pensions.

    Taking on extra PAs or waiting list work can spring massive tax bills.

    Colleagues and GPs are retiring early (some come back after formally retiring) because working is almost pointless.