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Prong collars are fine when used properly, shock collars I don't agree with. May look at using a prong collar for our 7 month old lab, she's pretty good at heal walking now but still sometimes pulls and when there's other dogs nearby she goes to lunge at them, or jump up at the owner.
 
Soldato
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Prong collars are fine when used properly, shock collars I don't agree with. May look at using a prong collar for our 7 month old lab, she's pretty good at heal walking now but still sometimes pulls and when there's other dogs nearby she goes to lunge at them, or jump up at the owner.

Got to be honest I'd feel horrible using something like that, I hated the choke too.

We bought him as a family friend with eyes open that there'd be stuff we needed to train, I love him to bits and would hate myself for hurting him.

If it helps at all Barks was the same/ish at 7 months. With a combination of age and immersion he's much better now.

Jumping up has basically stopped because he never got any sort of reward for it, lunging at other dogs still sort of happens but again much better since we've had him having playdates at the sitter with well picked days with other dogs to help him learn how to be part of a pack, really surprising how well that worked. He's still very keen to be friends but less "desperate"
 
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Got to be honest I'd feel horrible using something like that, I hated the choke too.

We bought him as a family friend with eyes open that there'd be stuff we needed to train, I love him to bits and would hate myself for hurting him.

If it helps at all Barks was the same/ish at 7 months. With a combination of age and immersion he's much better now.

Jumping up has basically stopped because he never got any sort of reward for it, lunging at other dogs still sort of happens but again much better since we've had him having playdates at the sitter with well picked days with other dogs to help him learn how to be part of a pack, really surprising how well that worked. He's still very keen to be friends but less "desperate"
Have a look at some recent videos by Fenrir Canine Training on YouTube - the owner Will does a lot of videos and demonstrates using a prong collar on himself to show that it doesn't hurt as the pressure is applied evenly around the neck.
 
Soldato
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I know it's an emotional and contentious subject, so I am not going to push it save to say I have rescued many Anatolian Karabash and Komondor dogs that people have misguidedly or stupidly bought and couldn't cope with. Some had been re homed several times. Dealing with these primitive livestock guarding breeds is a challenge but all bar one that I rescued had a good life and stayed here having a "normal" life and going out regularly until they died of natural causes and old age. Without a shock collar some would have been untrainable as they'd been left unchecked until they had become totally out of control. I have the scars and had the stitches to prove it :) The only other option would be to euthanise them.

Usually bought by idiots wanting a hard big dog after Googling with no idea what a hard big dog out control can be like, or how unsuitable the environment they put them in is. I will happily put a shock collar around my own neck and zap myself full blast. Are people against electric fences to train livestock where the boundaries are? Livestock keep well clear of electric fences after a few zaps and really they could be turned off, like I do with my own. The same is true with shock collars, a few zaps and a naughty disobedient hound is suddenly a good dog, realising their own behavioural boundaries. The collar can be put away or at least left on the dog but switched off for a while to ensure they have got the message. I am NOT saying they are needed on all dogs in training, far from it, but if normal methods fail and the dog's a nightmare...

But as I said, it's contentious and it is of course a personal choice.
 
Soldato
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Have a look at some recent videos by Fenrir Canine Training on YouTube - the owner Will does a lot of videos and demonstrates using a prong collar on himself to show that it doesn't hurt as the pressure is applied evenly around the neck.

So if it doesn't hurt why does the dog care?

Either way, it's a choice isn't it.. I'm choosing to go a route which clearly works because the choice isn't between out of control dog or prong collar.

Like I said, horses for courses, I wouldn't be comfortable with it so I'm not doing it and I'm accepting its a lot of repetition etc instead.
 
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So if it doesn't hurt why does the dog care?

Either way, it's a choice isn't it.. I'm choosing to go a route which clearly works because the choice isn't between out of control dog or prong collar.

Like I said, horses for courses, I wouldn't be comfortable with it so I'm not doing it and I'm accepting its a lot of repetition etc instead.
Because it focuses their attention back to you, as I mentioned before have a look at some of the Fenrir videos to fully explain it.
 
Soldato
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I'll take a look but you can find pretty much every version of whatever you want displayed as fact on youtube. It's a bit like the wall of prophets in life of brian.
 
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And why does it focus their attention back on you? They are asking you why you are hurting them.
I suggest you do some research into them too - if you tug at 100% effort then yes it’s going to hurt, it’s not designed to be used like that. Short small tug to get them to focus back to you.
 
Soldato
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I suggest you do some research into them too - if you tug at 100% effort then yes it’s going to hurt, it’s not designed to be used like that. Short small tug to get them to focus back to you.

Yeah... if it didn't do anything I.e hurt then you wouldn't get the dogs attention. A prong collar puts pressure on the throat, I suggest you do some research yourself.
 

bJN

bJN

Soldato
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Yeah... if it didn't do anything I.e hurt then you wouldn't get the dogs attention. A prong collar puts pressure on the throat, I suggest you do some research yourself.
Whilst I don't ever have any intention of using them, they do work. They cause a discomfort at best, and pain at worse. The dog associates whatever they were doing with a bad reaction (pain, discomfort) and it's therefore not in their interest to continue the behaviour / activity. We're training our dog mostly in line with the institute of modern dog trainers in basing it off positive reinforcement. It's a great way to connect with a (willing) dog and build a bond, and trust and reliance. What it doesn't ever do is override the natural instinct of dogs. And depending on the situation the surroundings and the arousal of said dog you can get away with it. Positive reinforcement will struggle to correct a bad behaviour, in much the same way that you can lead a horse to water but not make it drink, if that makes sense?

For example, I'm a firm believer that my recall with the dog is never good enough. I train it multiple times a day, every day. Up until now it's been fine. But I rue the day that he decides whatever he is looking at, eating, chasing is more interesting than me. Like Matt I'm willing to put in the time and effort to try and stick to positive reinforcement as much as possible; but certain scenarios you can't train a dog to deal with until it is in that situation. And if you aren't 100% sure of what the dog will do, there will always be that chance, however unlikely, that they could react in a dangerous way.
 
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But still happy to strangle your dog? Can't understand that myself.
Sigh…you’re doing 2+2=5 with my posts. I don’t even have a prong collar yet, I’ve never said that I’ve strangled my dog, and stated that they’re not used for that. :rolleyes:
 
Soldato
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Sigh…you’re doing 2+2=5 with my posts. I don’t even have a prong collar yet, I’ve never said that I’ve strangled my dog, and stated that they’re not used for that. :rolleyes:

They are though, that is their entire aim. To shock the dog into obeying it's owner through the use of pain. I'm surprised somebody who claims to have researched still favours aversive training techniques through the use of pain rather than reward based training.
 
Don
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My pup is growing up fast. Here she is with her best friend.

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Commissario
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They are though, that is their entire aim. To shock the dog into obeying it's owner through the use of pain. I'm surprised somebody who claims to have researched still favours aversive training techniques through the use of pain rather than reward based training.
It’s a very small pull to get their attention, it’s not designed to inflict pain. Anyone doing that shouldn’t be using one IMO.
 
Associate
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What is the dog straining to get at? I could probably cure him in a day, but you might not like the method. The dog and your lives would be the better for it though :) The methods many of the pro trainers show on YouTube are not what they actually use once the cameras are off and you've left the dog with them!

What would I use? A shock collar. That's the best way to stop him, a mild stimulus to get his attention, if he persists some stronger ones. Don't approve? Prong collars may work, but they are likely to damage his coat or worse long term.
I totally disagree.
 
Soldato
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I sort of get the point of you getting their attention bit with mine that would he him basically teaching himself because the only real challenge we've got is pulling.. he'd pull to the point it hurt him, he'd be hurt and hopefully he'd stop.

In the meantime I'd assume he'd be miserable and wondering why he was in pain although I know I'm anthropomorphising here a bit.
 
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You are kidding right? How does someone weight 5 and a half stone unless they are a kid or very ill?
Well, I'm only 4ft 11 and a half inches (the half being really important) so I don't think I'm too much underweight, am I?

However, I do have a chronic condition called gastroaparesis though, which is a paralysing of the stomach and makes it hard to eat anything and probably contributes to me being thin ish.

I was knocked over by a rather boisterous golden retriever a few years ago when I lived in Nottingham. It came running over and leapt up at me and I pretty much went flying!! LOL!!
 
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