Significant incident Plymouth

Soldato
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It’s all well and good calling government services, but when they have been cut to shreds since austerity, the services cannot cope.

If you have 2 ambulances, and 3 serious issues, 1 persons not getting an ambulance who needs one. It’s the sad state of government cuts.

The Police literally gave him his guns back lol
 
Man of Honour
Man of Honour
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which is a colossal failure. But did they have the resources to investigate and secure evidence to show he didn’t deserve them back?

Gun licensing in the UK does not default to yes, we are not a 'Shall Issue' location in any way.
 
Soldato
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Resources or not, someone still made that choice without being sure due diligence had been followed. If resources are thin then he should have had to wait. Don't just give them back in hope nothing will happen.
 
Soldato
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Resources or not, someone still made that choice without being sure due diligence had been followed. If resources are thin then he should have had to wait. Don't just give them back in hope nothing will happen.

How do you know due dilligence hadn't been followed?
 
Soldato
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which is a colossal failure. But did they have the resources to investigate and secure evidence to show he didn’t deserve them back?

This seems to be a major problem around licensing in this country, being able to get a gun is sometimes a post code lottery. Someone in one county could have a gun in just a couple of months and the guy a mile away under another jurisdiction will wait over a year, this is all down to two primary things; personal attitudes towards gun ownership in the Police force and resources available to them.

I think all forces nationwide need to get on the same page about what's acceptable and what isn't, South Yorkshire Police for example are pretty tough with their issuing which is a good thing but I'm sure not all forces work the same.
 
Soldato
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How do you know due dilligence hadn't been followed?

I was arguing against hurfdurfs strawman about this being all the Tory's fault.

An investigation (which will use resources) will determine then facts of whether he was actually assessed and deem fit to possess firearms.
 
Soldato
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The Met used to have AFOs carrying out the FAC issue and renewal visits/interviews, but for my last one in 2017, some civilian support type showed up and my door and got the right hump when I asked to see his warrant card. Still got my renewal approved though.
 
Caporegime
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If he didn't have a gun we'd be discussing a mass knife attack (arguable more deadly because you won't hear gunfire and run) as we've seen many times before. If people are so twisted that they want to commit mass murder then not having a gun isn't going to put them off.
 
Commissario
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The Met used to have AFOs carrying out the FAC issue and renewal visits/interviews, but for my last one in 2017, some civilian support type showed up and my door and got the right hump when I asked to see his warrant card. Still got my renewal approved though.

I’ve had a ticket for nearly twenty years and it’s always been a civilian who’s done the visits. This is a conversation we’ve had at the club in the past and nobody (including members covered by the MET) have ever had a visit from a serving police officer. FEOs have always been civilians. Most of them are retired AFOs though.
 
Soldato
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If he didn't have a gun we'd be discussing a mass knife attack (arguable more deadly because you won't hear gunfire and run) as we've seen many times before. If people are so twisted that they want to commit mass murder then not having a gun isn't going to put them off.

Precisely....look at the other 'Incel' who committed the Toronto attacks. H didn't have a gun, so he rented a van instead.

This should be about mental health and the failings of society, not firearms.
 
Soldato
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This guys mother was constantly calling the NHS and police, yet they give his guns back. We can have all the procedures in the world. But it seems when lapses appear they can have deadly consequences.

The police dropped the ball big time on this.

We've ended up in a world where we spend more time writing procedures rather than doing the actual work
 
Soldato
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I'm interested to know is it saving lives that some are in favour of or the manner in which people die they are against?

If we're going down the route of banning anything deemed as unnecessary. I'd suggest alcohol.

After we've increased safety that way we can move on to other potentially unsafe practices, any vehicle capable of exceeding the legal speed limit. I'm not sure when we will reach a safe enough level, perhaps we should keep removing anything potentially hazardous until there are no deaths other than old age?

To put it in context there are approximately 2 million legally held shotguns and firearms in England and Wales https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58198857.

In 2019 there were approximately 7,500 alcohol related deaths. Approximately 40% of violent crime involves alcohol and 30% of suicides. Very dangerous stuff!
 
Soldato
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Since when were handguns 'banned' in the UK?

1997. Only barrelled revolvers and similar .22 pistols are now legal. Must be at least 24" in length.

Gun licensing in the UK does not default to yes, we are not a 'Shall Issue' location in any way.

Actually shotguns are on a shall issue basis, firearms are different and require good reason. Likewise shotgun ammunition doesn't have to be locked away but firearms ammunition does. They are treated quite differently.
 
Caporegime
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Welling, London
It’s all well and good calling government services, but when they have been cut to shreds since austerity, the services cannot cope.

If you have 2 ambulances, and 3 serious issues, 1 persons not getting an ambulance who needs one. It’s the sad state of government cuts.
Don’t start blaming this on the government. The police have plenty enough resources to make the decision that someone who’s a sandwich short of a picnic should not have a gun licence.
 
Soldato
Joined
16 Jun 2005
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18,223
I'm assuming we'll see a tightening up of procedures, but hopefully no kneejerk reactions. Sometimes it's amazingly slack. When I got my last renewal nobody even bothered visiting, and I only got a phone call to ask about my security arrangements a week after they'd sent the SGC.
I'm still stunned he got his licence back. I assume the assault allegation wasn't proven, but there seems to have been plenty of red flags if only they'd bothered checking.
 
Soldato
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6 Aug 2009
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5,195
Don’t start blaming this on the government. The police have plenty enough resources to make the decision that someone who’s a sandwich short of a picnic should not have a gun licence.

Yes to be fair there are 700,000+ other people holding a shotgun or firearms certificate that haven't committed a crime. Whilst an horrific incident 1 in 700,000 is indicative that the system works but there was a failing of some sort in this case.
 
Associate
Joined
28 Jun 2013
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1,918
I'm interested to know is it saving lives that some are in favour of or the manner in which people die they are against?

If we're going down the route of banning anything deemed as unnecessary. I'd suggest alcohol.

After we've increased safety that way we can move on to other potentially unsafe practices, any vehicle capable of exceeding the legal speed limit. I'm not sure when we will reach a safe enough level, perhaps we should keep removing anything potentially hazardous until there are no deaths other than old age?

To put it in context there are approximately 2 million legally held shotguns and firearms in England and Wales https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58198857.

In 2019 there were approximately 7,500 alcohol related deaths. Approximately 40% of violent crime involves alcohol and 30% of suicides. Very dangerous stuff!

If you work out the maths, fags sold in British shops kill about 9 people an hour. It just slow and brushed under the carpet because it was self inflicted
 
Soldato
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6 Aug 2009
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5,195
If you work out the maths, fags sold in British shops kill about 9 people an hour. It just slow and brushed under the carpet because it was self inflicted

Indeed, truth is people don't really care that random strangers die but they do love a lynch mob and banning something is the modern virtual way. Some quickly forget the attempts to ban violent video games and TV and films. Ironically pre internet and violent video games and TV with easier availability of guns we didn't have such a prevalence of these crimes, coincidence?

Maybe more emphasis on personal responsibility rather than blaming ones issues on society and lashing out might be a start?
 
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