Siliconslave's how to make espresso thread

mid_gen said:
I'd rather drop the money on some burrs and a motor and use my mate's workship to build one for a fraction of the price :D
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I'd like to see the result - thats basically what webber did but then commercializing it at a 'reasonable' price is neigh on impossible (the decent owner was saying the same thing - making a decent espresso machine cheaply wouldn't be any fun for him as would lower quality, move production out of his hands & ultimately they are doing well at the current price).


Lovely cups there tom
 
i've got a 3d printed one on my eureka - as its basically big enough for about 30g of beans it actually doesn't suffer too much from popcorning. I guess i do run it a while on empty but i've never had much of a problem with popcorning on any grinder in terms of it having a noticeable effect on the coffee.

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its usually the gasket thats causing the issue, unless you have a silicone one the rubber hardens over time and prevents you from turning the handle far enough round to lock - to me it looks like you replaced it with too thick a gasket so the handle isn't sitting at 90degrees like it should.
 
Raymond Lin said:
I have or had 2 Starbucks double walled mugs, cracked one in the first week and the 2nd one pretty much sits in the cupbard permanently.
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Ditto - i've had about 6 bodum double wallers in total, managed to put a teaspoon through one with too intense string, my latest two live in the cupboard awaiting the next time i buy some flowering tea (its been about 5 years so far!)
 
on an anaerobic kick at the moment, if you like a fruity flavoured coffee you have to try some - had some black cat on a limited run and trying crankhouse's offering now. Not sure i can go back to normally processed coffees now! Got a cup of the Finca Los Alpes on the go and the flavours and aromas are amazing.

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Cordillera de Fuego Anaerobic, Finca Los Alpes Carbonic Maceration & Banko Gotiti Anaerobic Strawberry from Crankhouse coffee
 
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Depends on your budget, intended use, arm strength and how much you value aesthetics but i'd probably recommend the following:

For brewing (pour over, cafetiere, moka pot, aeropress) id look at
<£100 - hand grinders
~£100 - Wilfa Svart
~£190 - Eureka Mignon Filtro
~£250 - Wilfa Uniform
£300 - Fellow Ode

For espresso
£100 - £150 - hand grinder ie 1Zpresso
£130 - £160 - Iberital MC2 / Lelit Fred (same thing, different cases) - has its drawbacks but good for the money
£280 - £400 - Eureka Facile to Eureka Specialita
£400ish - Solo / DF64
£500 - Niche Zero
£1260 -Lagom P64
£1500 - Weber Key (although pre-production)
£2500 - Weber EG-1
 
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olv said:
Given you started the thread I'm very upset by your spelling of espresso :p
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This thread has proved really useful over the past 18 months and from someone who went from drinking very little coffee to really enjoying the whole process it's been a good hobby to pick up.
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oh man, i can't believe i did that :o super embarrassing!

Glad your enjoying the thread and hobby, lovely looking setup(+gin cart!)
 
Alibaba99 said:
Can you really get the Solo/DF-64 for £300 as it's £399 on Bella Barista?

There is also the new Eureka Mignon Oro single dose grinder at £500, but that appears to suffer the same problem as most of the Eureka range that you cannot easily change from espresso to brew type coffees.
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your right, I defiantly need an editor today, that should have been £400! I've not seen any reviews on the Oro Single Dose yet so waiting to see what its like - feels a bit like its just the xl on a wonk with a small hopper.
 
Begbie said:
I feel the same, coming from a £20 grinder to a MC2 (which is allegedly awful and you need to spend £500), the difference whilst there it isn't as much as the internet will let you believe at all.
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The biggest jump is by far pre-ground to self ground, after than it really is diminished returns from a taste point of view - your paying for repeatability, ease of use and build quality more than anything.
 
olv said:
I actually ordered a Mara X before the Rocket after weighing up the two machines for weeks but as soon as ordered it I knew I had chosen the wrong one for me and have been chuffed with the Mozz'.
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The appartamento is a great machine and stunning, i couldn't really justify the extra space for one (or a bianca) but for its footprint the maraX has been great.

Raymond Lin said:
Still rocking my Gaggia Classic :D
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I do sometimes regret selling mine, served well for so long :)
 
Raymond Lin said:
Does anyone know any physical coffee machine stores which I can see a range of these in person?
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Apparently bella barista will show you round a few machines with some arrangement but otherwise your'll be lucky. You could try the london coffee festival this weekend?

Begbie said:
This is my exact setup, probably cost me nearly exactly £250 too. I
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its rumoured (by me, now) that Hoffman based the video on this very thread :p
 
sounds like your getting too much volume through in too little time, you want to be aiming for 1:2 in 25 seconds - so 18grams beans in = 36g coffee out.

The fact you're getting 60ml suggest you need to grind finer or improve your beans as Junglist says.

I'm not sure if the Barista express can grind fine enough to choke the machine but try going finer and finer until you run out of adjustment or hit 2:1
 
I always include the time before the pour - start the timer as you hit the button :)

jpaul said:
How long does it take before it starts flowing (tbh I don't know for sure but think that time should be included ??? for me yes) 18g is quite a lot of coffee and I suspect it could be channeling after having to build up pressure for a long time ?
I'd try 14/15g.
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good point - forgot its a small basket on the sages!

jpaul said:
other news - PRICES
There's not much you can do to hedge against this upcoming price hike if the the May stories on Brasil harvest , reiterated recently in news >$4/kg source - a subscription ?
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Might be worth a go, but I doubt the roasters are going to keep their current prices once the shortages start to bite. You could invest in a vacuum sealer and freeze a load of beans, or buy a load of green and roast yourself but honestly i think were just going to have to pay if we want to keep getting decent coffees.

I popped into the algerian coffee shop in london the other week, not my favourite place but the wife (usually) likes their seasonal blends, almost bought some skyberry from them for nostalgias sake but it was £20 for 250g!!!
 
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had a look at other sage threads and they tend to recommend 18g of beans so it should be ok - this seems a good write up:

OK - first things first,

1.What makes the Sage/Breville different, why do some of the regular rules not apply?
Because it has a thermocoil/jet instead of a boiler. I don't know how common this is or isn't in the coffee world. But by comparison the gaggia (which many will have started with) has a small boiler instead.
The coil is, as the name suggest a set of small pipes. Water is shot through and heated as it passes through.
I think of this as like an electric shower, in that flow can change the rate at which the water is heated. This is important for later!

Now, don't get me wrong, the sage stuff seems to be well advanced compared to the old crappy thermoblock stuff. But it's still got issues you need to know about.

This means that you are not going to get the Sages warmed up by just switching them on. You are going to need to run a few cycles of hot water through it first.

My pro pulls it's best shot on the 4th cycle and so on.

2. The sages are technical in their control. This means
- The temp is very stable
- If you play by it's rules (keep reading)

3. Why you must use fresh beans in a sage..... 1-5weeks old MAX!

This is probably the most important point so I've made it bold!
Anytime you call sage they will ask you if you've used fresh beans.

Why?
Have you noticed when you use older beans you have to grind finer and finer? Changes in the bean from the environment (oxidation, moisture etc.) not only make the bean become stale and lifeless, but make it far quicker and easier to extract what flavour is left, the puck doesn't present much resistance (also no Co2 release) so it runs through fast.

If you want to see this in action grind a FRESH bean and leave overnight, then use the next day. No crema, fast tasteless extraction.

WHY DOES THIS MATTER SO MUCH IN THE SAGE?

Because the sage relies on the flow being slowed down in the group head, to generate the right pressure and temp.
This is why if you measure the temp of the water just falling out of the group it will not be accurate, as the flow has increased through the thermocoil/jet and it might not be able to keep up with supplying fresh energy fast enough for heating.

Is this starting to make sense?

So your plan is

1. Buy a sage

2. Buy some decent beans from Black cat, Rave, James Gourmet whoever,
JUST DON'T PUT SUPERMARKET BEANS IN IT!

IF YOU ONLY HAVE CRAPPY BEANS GRIND THEM A LITTLE COARSER AND USE THE PRESSURISED BASKET (OR A FRENCH PRESS!)

This is why so many people are asking why their extraction is so short.

4. The volumetric measure is WRONG!
Don't rely on it. measure it manually.



5. The grinder is inconsistent in it's grind time. Every time you change the grind setting or bean the amount you get is different. It's even different day to day with exactly the same setting! So get a set of scales.



BUY A SET OF SCALES - YOU NEED IT!



6. The grinder top burr is set for fresh coffee, medium roast (mostly)
You can adjust the grinder with the side knob, but this is only a set of steps WITHIN a set of steps.

In my experience the stock upper burr position (5?) is good for medium through to medium dark.

I have had to adjust it (down to 4) with anything lighter than that, such as a Guatemalan hard bean or weirdly a medium roast Monsooned Malabar.

This is also why your supermarket beans won't work with the standard settings, you may be able to get them to work with adjusting this burr

So if you're on number 1 on the grind setting and still getting a fast extraction you will need to adjust that burr.
But like bike gear there is crossover, so you may be able to keep it at number 4.



Can you see where this is going?

To get the sage to work optimally, both providing the right pressure and temp for a great extraction (or even a half decent one) you have to create the right amount of resistance in the puck.
Deviate from this even a small amount and the machine won't like it.

This is even more important in the new thermojet, the DTP and older models have more leeway.

Final point.

Weigh everything and ignore the pressure gauge!

Final final point

The thermocoil/jet design has small pipes so the sage is EXTREMELY prone to scale. So if your machine is more than a few months old or a refurb think scale first and use the right water in it!
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