Soldato
And you just avoided the huge point I made, most of the CPU's will never ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever be overclocked as they will end up in workstations.He was avoiding the overclock as he knows Ryzen is not as good at it.
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Skylake-X Lineup Leaked: i9-7980XE 18 Core Flagship Processor
- Thread starter WingZero30
- Start date
Soldato
Paying a bit more for the motherboard and getting quad channel ram and a soldered ihs isn't a bad idea. People already either pay a premium or go through a risky process to get a delidded 7700k, me included.
Nice to have the option than not in any case.
Man of Honour
And you just avoided the huge point I made, most of the CPU's will never ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever be overclocked as they will end up in workstations.
You realise probably the most popular motherboard to use with the 6950X is the Asus Rampage 5 Edition 10 and that board will overclock any CPU by default without any user involvement. So basically most 6950Xs will end up overclocked.
Soldato
Must just be me who's never used one then, but heh, I guess you know how every single person designs their machines. Not 2 months ago I built ten systems, five with 6950X on X99-E-10G WS, and the other 5 were 6900's on the same board.
Man of Honour
And?
Caporegime
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It's not quad channel, it has only 16pci-e lanes meaning you can't use all the slots on the board and it has only dual channel memory meaning you can't use all the memory slots on the board.
So you're paying a lot more for the motherboard for extra pci-e lane circuitry, extra memory slots and the traces which connect them which is a large part of the costs, (more traces, more layers, more cost) but none of that works with Kabylake-x. I wouldn't bank on it being soldered either, it might be, it might not be, who knows with Intel.
Also for the record, quad channel memory provides almost no benefit on x99 in 98% of workloads. About the only thing that gives more performance is things like 7-zip/winrar benchmarks. Gaming gives no benefit, cinebench, rendering, anything that actually waits on the CPU rather than just needs raw bandwidth and does almost nothing on the cpu itself doesn't benefit from quad channel memory. So even if it had it, it would increase power usage of the memory controller for basically no gain.
It's just absurd to have a chip with less cores for which you have to buy a much more expensive mobo and almost every HEDT feature will not work with that same chip.
There is no reason not to buy a 7700k, a cheaper z270 motherboard and then if and when you want more cores, sell the 7700k and z270 and buy a 6-12 core Skylake-x. Who will buy the kabylake-x off you.. absolutely no one at all, who will buy a 7700k/z270 combo, loads of people.
I mean it's the equivalent of adding a single core Kabylake chip to the z270 platform. Make it single channel, give it 6x pci-e but up it's tdp a bit so it hits 5Ghz boost on a single core. Then you have to buy a z270 board where half the memory slots, most of the pci-e slots can't be utilised due to this crippled chip being sold for that platform. It's honestly nuts.
Caporegime
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In no way is a £550 board the 'most popular' board, even suggesting so is ridiculous. I have a x99 board, I wasn't remotely interested in a board priced over £250, i spent less than £200 on the board I did get in the end. The massive massive majority of x99 buyers are not spending £500+ on a mobo. What you probably meant to say was that amongst extreme overclockers, which will make up sub 0.5% of all x99 sales, that board is popular. But probably 90% of all x99 mobos sold will be sub £250, and probably 97% of all x99 chips sold will never be overclocked.
Man of Honour
I did not say it was the most popular X99 board, I said it was the most popular sold with the 6950X. You are right about one thing though 6950Xs probably make up about 2% of all X99 sales.
Caporegime
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Who says it's the most popular board sold with a 6950x?
Lots of people who want the processing power will pay for extra cores, but won't pay for a shedload of completely non work related motherboard features that they'll never use. Spending £500 to get your work to render or complete faster is an investment, spending £300 extra to get a second sound DAC, fancy RGB lights and whatever other nonsense gets added to motherboards to entice people to waste their money isn't an investment, it's just extra money for no reason to the massive majority of users.
Lots of people who want the processing power will pay for extra cores, but won't pay for a shedload of completely non work related motherboard features that they'll never use. Spending £500 to get your work to render or complete faster is an investment, spending £300 extra to get a second sound DAC, fancy RGB lights and whatever other nonsense gets added to motherboards to entice people to waste their money isn't an investment, it's just extra money for no reason to the massive majority of users.
Man of Honour
Here is a big clue
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/8pac...locked-entusiast-gaming-bundle-bu-001-8p.html
8 Pack is not going to do bundles if it was not so popular.
You could also checkout the Futuremark results for yourself and you will see plenty of Rampage 5 Edition 10s and Rampage 5 Extremes which outnumber any other board.
Soldato
You are rather far of the mark in honesty. We have almost 4 dozen computers running the 6950x and they are all on either the Gigabyte GA-X99P or the Asus X99-A II because spending that much on the board is not viable when a board half the price works just as well for what it is intended to do.
8 Pack does the package because it is has the ultimate options/OC ability and extra features all round whilst likely having the highest mark up compared to that of other motherboards. They sell what they want to make popular with marketing not the other way around.
It is popular in the Enthusiast market also but that is not where the majority of 6950x even end up so again making those numbers up based on this is odd to say the least.
Man of Honour
Do you run your 6950Xs @stock and if so don't you think you could have saved yourself a lot of money and got better performance by using 6900k CPUs overclocked to 4.0ghz?
Caporegime
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Your proof of 6950x mostly buying this one motherboard is... someone offers a bundle for it, for real?
Your other idea is check out futuremark? Because everyone who buys 6950x cares about benchmarking, again, are you honestly trying to say that is a sensible way to tell how many people buy which motherboard with which chip?
99% of all chips sold never get a single benchmark of any kind run on them, let alone specifically future mark.
A hint here is, benchmarkers which is an extremely small subset of buyers, and extreme benchmarkers which is an even more extreme subset of benchmarkers, turn up on futuremark, but 99.9% of chips sold don't end up there.
Regardless, the initial point which you responded to I talked about TDP specifically and what they'd run at under load, because that is what matters to 97%+ of the people buying any kind of higher powered chip. Making all this rather pointless, but even so, you offer no proof of anything you're saying, just the most tenuous of links to back up your argument.
Man of Honour
It is you who has offered no proof, just a wall of test.
As to TDP if you are worried about it, then you should be looking at Xeon setups which are a lot more efficient than thier desktop counterparts.
Soldato
No quad channel is a bugger, I didn't realise that. The 3820 and 4820k had quad channel and full pcie lanes, so this is a step back really.
My comments about delidding still stand though as well as better to have the option than not.
Soldato
Different core/thread count for a start, different cache amount. They both turbo to 4.0Ghz so no different there between the two. Neither require them to be overclocked to 4.0GHz though and the money saved is that they both turbo at 4.0GHz but the additional cores allow for faster render times which because they are constantly being used soon adds up at work.
In regards to TDP, the Xeon are lower TDP but they are lower turbo for the same core count as well. They are no more efficient really at the same core frequency. Take the Xeon E5-2650 which turbos at 3GHz that TDP is still only 105w and the 6950x is 140w. That is a large IPC difference for TPD level.
In regards to overclocking anyways. We don't overclock any CPU due to warranty which would be void and no good if anything goes wrong. Could we get more performance to overclock to 4.4GHz where possible, of course but it is a works machine and replacing them would be costly so that is a no go and also a reason why Overclockers are selling CPU's with warranty at higher costs because that where the market is.
The extra £400 on top of the cost of the 6950X to get Overclockers to provide the system at 4.4GHz with warranty isn't bad however we have had these prior to the bundle release. In any future build we would certainly look into these although the £400 difference would be better for 64GB RAM over the 32GB between the CPU overclocked or not.
Soldato
Just to add, a single core on 1151 would be welcomed by the mining community, so long as it had a price tag to match.
Caporegime
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With less pci-e lanes so the ability to only use half the slots, I sincerely doubt that. Remember x99 has 6 cores and 28pci-e lanes compared to what 20 or 24 pci-e lanes on z270 with only 4 cores. The new quad cores will be on the more expensive mobos but render half the features of that mobo useless with only 16x pci-e and dual channel mem. That is why I mentioned a similar situation on z270 would be a single core with 8x pci-e and half the pci-e slots not being connected.
There is also little indications the quad cores on the new platform will offer good value for money. They lack the igpu(though most don't use it) of the z270 equivalent quads but will probably cost similarly.
I have to say I would want ECC on a workstation though. If Intel ever were to enable ECC on their HEDT platform, then we would know that AMD has then worried. Now if only Ryzen motherboard makers could be bothered to actually test ECC support with their BIOSs as AMD not disabling it is not enough.And you just avoided the huge point I made, most of the CPU's will never ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever be overclocked as they will end up in workstations.
I once suffered minor brain damage, and I still wouldn't by this over a 1700X even if it wasn't more expensive lol. The range as a whole looks cool (depending on prices of it and X399) but I have to ask what the hell Intel are thinking here lol.