Smart lock to home front door.

[SimonR]

^^^^ This - As former Police officer, attending hundreds of burglaries, I have NEVER been to one where locks were picked. Anyone who believes different needs to get out of their parents basement once in a while. If it were that easy Police would use lockpicks and pickguns, not the big red key. Too much James Bond / Mission Impossible. I also met with our corporate insurers (Zurich) last week and happened to ask them if they get many claims from picked locks (as I got flamed on here about the same thing) and after they stopped laughing, none of them had come across valid claims for entry by picked locks for Domestic or Commercial. Lets get this into perspective guys.

 

[WJA96]

^^^^ This - As former Police officer, attending hundreds of burglaries, I have NEVER been to one where locks were picked. Anyone who believes different needs to get out of their parents basement once in a while. If it were that easy Police would use lockpicks and pickguns, not the big red key. Too much James Bond / Mission Impossible. I also met with our corporate insurers (Zurich) last week and happened to ask them if they get many claims from picked locks (as I got flamed on here about the same thing) and after they stopped laughing, none of them had come across valid claims for entry by picked locks for Domestic or Commercial. Lets get this into perspective guys.

As someone who used to make good money gaining entry for bailiffs and utility suppliers, I can assure you that very few supply terminations are carried out with a destructive entry. And the costings on the jobs allowed 30 minutes to gain entry to a properly and if it took you that long folks were getting VERY frustrated that they hadn’t moved in to the next job yet.

The main reason, as a locksmith, that you don’t want to damage and replace a lock is that you have to go back and face the resident when you hand over their new door keys. And when you do that they don’t have a bailiff or a dog handler present. It’s just you and the (usually VERY annoyed off resident).

So raking or decoding the lock was always the preferred method of gaining entry. And usually pretty straightforward.

What happened a lot was local law enforcement and councils would actively promote secure locks so in some areas of Bradford every house got a subsidised Ultion after a rash of lock snappings. I just had to buy an Ultion decoder. And you can’t tell me that certain units within the law enforcement community aren’t extremely good at gaining entry to premises without a ‘big red key’. Most of that knocking doors in stuff is about getting in immediately before the alleged perpretator has time to flee or hide or dispose of evidence.

 

[Gammawolf]

He's not talking about legitimate activities though, its about burglaries. You have a skill and it is worth good money because its based on a legitimate process. The people that actually pick locks (mostly) are those that make a good living doing so and have no need to use their skills for stealing (thus risking their livelihood and jail time). There are also hobbyist pickers but that infers a certain mental frame of mind that i would say isn't common to burglars. Then on the other side of the coin are people who (for various reasons) have no skills, no stable jobs, are lazy, don't want to better themselves and resort to just stealing as the easiest option. These people do most of the burglaries and these people mostly don't invest time to learn picking and invest money into various tools etc due to the attitude that lead them to the activity in the first place.

 

[SimonR]

Most of that knocking doors in stuff is about getting in immediately before the alleged perpetrator has time to flee or hide or dispose of evidence.

Most of the time it is about the element of surprise and opening a door quietly provides a much greater element of surprise then spending upto a few minutes trying to smash a plastic door to pieces with a 'big red key'. Its not done because its isnt easy. If it were its what would be used. Police budgets are already overstretched, do you not think that raking a lock and causing minimal damage would be preferable (especially to those upstairs) to paying over a grand to make secure and replace a front door?

We both come from different areas of experience but suffice to say, in law enforcement lockpicking is neither done, is rarely seen, and is not an issue when providing home security advice.

 

[DeanT77]

Smart locks sound like a great idea - there are hardly any thefts of keyless cars right, so what is there to worry about

 

[Vandle]

Locksmith put me right off smart locks, told me he doesn't sell them or fit them. Got one of these instead and it works brilliant. https://carbine.com.au/digital-locks/electronic-digital-lock/cel-3-in-1/
Made life so much better.

 

[~Divine~Wind~]

after watching this I think I will stick to a key
https://youtu.be/nwPtcqcqz00

hahahah love it

 

[UberTiger]

I've spent the day looking at this and I agree with most people that I'm not a fan of having them on the front door of a normal place. I can see the benefit in the case of access control where you need to grant and revoke permissions, such as a rental property or air bnb, but not a fan of them for home, or at least front door.

The use case for me is an accessibility issue, and having the unit able to perform the motorised lock rotation for someone that can't manage it easily. It seems some of these just use bluetooth or an app to authorise the user, but then you still have to manually turn the handle. I want something that authorises and rotates with a motor. Actually, I'm not even fussed about the authorisation, I just wanted a motorised lock as it's internal only.

I ended up coming across the Ultion Smart, which it turns out is just the Danalock attached to their handle and cylinder.

So then I looked at just getting the Danalock on it's own, but their shop is no longer live and people are complaining about them on Trustpilot, it seems they've been very quiet on socials the last couple of years too, so perhaps it's a dying product? Weird if Ultion are stilling selling them.

It seems Ultion are now pushing their Nuki integration too. So I looked at that. Which looks much better supported, but doesn't quite fit where I need to mount it.

Then I came across this brand mentioned in a comment somewhere called Tedee and it looks great, it's from a Polish teamup of a home door and lock company called Garda, and a local software development studio and the Tedde product and app looks really polished.

It's also much smaller than the Nuki. Nearly all the reviews and vids are in German and Polish, so doesn't seem to popular here yet. I think I might give it a punt as it fits my weird use case requirements perfectly, and at least the company seem active, reviews are good and the app looks polished.

You can also add it to your existing cylinder lock with an adapter, or buy a modular cylinder and adjust to your door type, perfect for UK cylinder locks.

 

[WJA96]

I've spent the day looking at this and I agree with most people that I'm not a fan of having them on the front door of a normal place. I can see the benefit in the case of access control where you need to grant and revoke permissions, such as a rental property or air bnb, but not a fan of them for home, or at least front door.

The use case for me is an accessibility issue, and having the unit able to perform the motorised lock rotation for someone that can't manage it easily. It seems some of these just use bluetooth or an app to authorise the user, but then you still have to manually turn the handle. I want something that authorises and rotates with a motor. Actually, I'm not even fussed about the authorisation, I just wanted a motorised lock as it's internal only.

I ended up coming across the Ultion Smart, which it turns out is just the Danalock attached to their handle and cylinder.

So then I looked at just getting the Danalock on it's own, but their shop is no longer live and people are complaining about them on Trustpilot, it seems they've been very quiet on socials the last couple of years too, so perhaps it's a dying product? Weird if Ultion are stilling selling them.

It seems Ultion are now pushing their Nuki integration too. So I looked at that. Which looks much better supported, but doesn't quite fit where I need to mount it.

Then I came across this brand mentioned in a comment somewhere called Tedee and it looks great, it's from a Polish teamup of a home door and lock company called Garda, and a local software development studio and the Tedde product and app looks really polished.

It's also much smaller than the Nuki. Nearly all the reviews and vids are in German and Polish, so doesn't seem to popular here yet. I think I might give it a punt as it fits my weird use case requirements perfectly, and at least the company seem active, reviews are good and the app looks polished.

You can also add it to your existing cylinder lock with an adapter, or buy a modular cylinder and adjust to your door type, perfect for UK cylinder locks.

That'll be easy to turn with a helping hand letterbox tool!

 

[UberTiger]

lol, indeed. Mine's not going anywhere near a letterbox though, or any other holes to the inside of the house

Plus the door it's going on already has additional mag locks on it, so they'd have to be able to reach the switch for them too, unless they also cut the power to the whole place.

 

[WJA96]

lol, indeed. Mine's not going anywhere near a letterbox though, or any other holes to the inside of the house

Plus the door it's going on already has additional mag locks on it, so they'd have to be able to reach the switch for them too, unless they also cut the power to the whole place.

Maglocks are extraordinarily easy to defeat. And you'll still convince yourself you're secure so just go ahead and do it.

 

[UberTiger]

Really? How would you go about doing that?

The maglocks weren't by choice. It's my boss' place and they're fancy super small frame aluminium bi fold garden doors.

So the mag lock is standard I believe from this company and they're part of the top frame of the door internally, pulling the doors flat when active.

They also have standard cylinder locks at the bottom of the doors though for extra manual protection. Half euro cyclinders, so no external key hole, so can't be picked from outside. I'm guessing they do this because the mag locks are pretty much useless as they fail open during power loss, which we're well aware of.

The problem is the basic cylinder locks are right on the ground and a right pain in the arse to use. My bosses wife has already put her back out trying to unlock them when bent over, hence the need to find a way to motorise the unlocking of the euro cyclinder lock at the base

It's a ******* terrible design tbh, their old wooden framed doors had sliding latches that went up and down and you could move with your foot. Super simple and easy to use, but when you get a product that maximises glass space and minimises frame you alll of a sudden have no where to mount a much more safe, ergonomic, old school and effective locking mechanism such as a basic manual foot operated sliding latch

 

[Richie]

Is there a smart lock available for UK multipoint locks where you have to lift the handle to lock the door?

I'd want the smart lock to do that part as well though... Seems there are tons of locks that will essentially just turn the barrel to lock but is there one where it will do the handle lifting as well i.e. one that I can lock the door from remotely without me having to manually lift the handle first.

 

[Loagi]

As has been said, videos showing lockpicking is 99.9% people playing games in the comfort of their man-caves where its nice and dry, well lit, legal, and the lock is held 'just so' (often upside-down), and they can spend hours and 1000s of attempts before they video the 1 showing how easy it is.

Doing it at 3am in the dark and rain, crouched down and the rozzers potentially arriving any second is another matter.

Sure some locksmiths may do it - but most just use a drill. Criminals lockpicking homes is probably not even 1/10000 break-ins.

 

[the-evaluator]

Is there a smart lock available for UK multipoint locks where you have to lift the handle to lock the door?

I'd want the smart lock to do that part as well though... Seems there are tons of locks that will essentially just turn the barrel to lock but is there one where it will do the handle lifting as well i.e. one that I can lock the door from remotely without me having to manually lift the handle first.

I've got an Ultion Smart which does that but I don't know if that's down to the lock or the particular multipoint mechanism in the door. However, it looks like the one I have has been discontinued, hence the link to a 3rd party website.

 

[UberTiger]

My Tedee arrived, and installed today. Overall very impressed.

They machined a custom sized euro cylinder for me due to being a weird size, and although not as small as it could be, I think it's the best they could have done and way better than anything off the shelf.

The app works well and the motor is very powerful. Lesson learned the hard way after playing with it before fitting it and getting my finger trapped in the mechanism
That resulted me in sitting with my hand in a bowl of cold water all evening to keep the swelling down! lol

They even included a micro usb mag-safe like charging cable so that if the lock rotates when charging, the cable will just break away. It seems like a really well thought out device.

I did get stung with import duty though
That added another £65 to a 300 euro order.

They do mention this in the checkout, however I didn't see it due to being a custom order and just paying by link in an email.

 

[haleytolson94]

I can't speak for all smart locks, but mine works great with Google Home and Nest systems. I use an app on my phone to lock and unlock the door, and it's super easy to set up temporary codes for visitors or service people.
My lock also has NFC capabilities, so I can use my phone to unlock the door just by tapping it. Voice commands might be possible with some locks, but I haven't tried it.
I think smart locks are worth it if you're looking for added convenience and peace of mind. Plus, they can add value to your home if you ever sell. Just make sure to do your research and choose a reputable brand. Good luck with your decision! A

 

[Feek]

O RLY? Please tell me more.