Snow stories!

paradigm · 12 Dec 2017 at 19:03

Django x2 said:
I assume we know that chains are a legal requirement in France if there's snow in the alps. So, please, if not just for someone elses sake, take chains.

I know they are, hence why I take them with me! I’m surprised Geekman didn’t take chains though!

geekman · 12 Dec 2017 at 19:18

paradigm said:
I know they are, hence why I take them with me! I’m surprised Geekman didn’t take chains though!

Sorry, I thought this thread was about stupid things we did in the snow, not well prepared trips that went without a hitch?

At the time, I was only living an hour or so away from the alps and my (flawed) logic was that if things got a bit tricky we'd just turn back. If I was doing it again, I would definitely bring chains and snow tyres.

jpaul · 12 Dec 2017 at 20:49

adolf hamster said:
This is true, overtook a honda civic earlier doing about 20 on a perfectly clear road, when a bm on summer tyres is passing you in weather like this you've probably misjudged it

The ruts of snow in the middle of the A road were a bit problematic on Sunday morning for overtaking the 40mph traffic, don't know how much rwd may hinder this, but cannot change down and accelerate past as you might do in dry conditions, the adherence inbalance makes it tricky. ?

paradigm said:
Got the 330d up to Val Thorens multiple times on summer tyres

a couple of 25KG bags of sand in the boot were always rumored to help up the lacets to ISOLA 2000 resort.

...poetic justice this morning in the freeze 2 miles of A road into town, sligtly off camber bend, renown, but they never learn, in daylight one car in the ditch at 8:20am and another one joined it about 30mins later as I returned, builders van and central heating company, a few big grave-stone signs would help after a mortality a few years back.

adolf hamster · 13 Dec 2017 at 06:36

jpaul said:
The ruts of snow in the middle of the A road were a bit problematic on Sunday morning for overtaking the 40mph traffic, don't know how much rwd may hinder this, but cannot change down and accelerate past as you might do in dry conditions, the adherence inbalance makes it tricky. ?

It was completely clear, just a wet road (with a ton of salt), wouldnt have even tried if with snow ruts

DXP55 · 13 Dec 2017 at 13:31

Went out sunday morning to give snow tyres a run and came up behind a slow coach - nice straight road (A41) both ways were clear but slush dividing two lanes - so pull out and found it wasn't slush but ice slush - wiggled a bit but got over it - passed slow coach and now how to get back in - put a spurt on - got some distance and pulled over - wow - it pulled me across and hit clear bit of road doing a nice tail wag - next time I will follow the pack.

jpaul · 13 Dec 2017 at 22:55

I wonder if the adhesion differential between tyres on wet and icy patches is greater with snow tyres, wouldn't the ~~traction~~stability control on newer vehicles not help with such a manouver too ?
(when top gear was about cars, remember them showing merc testing with one side of car on ice, the other dry)
I did not start the overtake via rut, because, indeed, I was afraid about being stuck on the wrong side of the road, looking for a way back.

Amp34 · 14 Dec 2017 at 04:46

The opposite to that. With Winter tyres the differential would be less as the there would be more grip on the ice than a normal tyre, therefor making the grip more similar to the wet road.

Akagi · 14 Dec 2017 at 09:21

No tyre grips on ice.

DXP55 · 14 Dec 2017 at 09:26

I did do a try stop on ice in our road before got to main road - ABS came on and kept going - I have used them for 4 winters without any snow here and they are down to about 5mm compared to the original 8mm - it wasn't so much not having the grip crossing center ice slush as more the slush was so hard it moved the car around when you went over it and dumped me back on cleared bit of road.

In the last snow 4 years ago we were out in it - coming home in virgin 2-3" of snow the car seemed like it was on wet road - It went round corners rather than sailing straight on - I was very impressed then - bare in mind it wasn't icy.

Nearly all gone now so hope that's it -

Scania · 14 Dec 2017 at 09:27

3 minutes said:
No tyre grips on ice.

Spiked ones do

Akagi · 14 Dec 2017 at 09:47

Scania said:
Spiked ones do

I'm assuming that isn't what he meant but yeah true!

something daft already!! · 14 Dec 2017 at 09:53

I saw some snow once. True story.

Akagi · 14 Dec 2017 at 10:09

something daft already!! said:
I saw some snow once. True story.

Me 3.

Dunks · 14 Dec 2017 at 10:33

Amp34 said:
The opposite to that. With Winter tyres the differential would be less as the there would be more grip on the ice than a normal tyre, therefor making the grip more similar to the wet road.

What? Winter tyres don't grip on ice, they just perform better in the cold weather.

Akagi · 14 Dec 2017 at 10:49

I'm guessing he meant snow, they do work much better in the snow.

something daft already!! · 14 Dec 2017 at 11:26

3 minutes said:
Me 3.

Did it last about 3 minutes? We've not had snow here in about 7 years. Not that I mind.

I did take a picture with my ancient old Sony K800 IIRC last time.

jpaul · 14 Dec 2017 at 13:01

Amp34 said:
The opposite to that. With Winter tyres the differential would be less as the there would be more grip on the ice than a normal tyre, therefor making the grip more similar to the wet road

hypothesis was : that in the wet sections could be too warm for optimal winter tyre use, so all season would grip better; but the winter tyre on the other side of car would grip the slush/ice well, giving a larger differential.
But after looking it seems 7C is the cut-off point, anyway if the slush were colder than wet section, manouver would be too fast for the tread to 'respond.' (with additional flexibility)

Also I guess manouver is too fast for any stability control to help much to compensate for differential, or save the day (per year it might be an issue in the uk)

Amp34 · 14 Dec 2017 at 15:57

Dunks said:
What? Winter tyres don't grip on ice, they just perform better in the cold weather.

And they perform better on ice. They still don’t provide ultimate grip, but they provide better grip than a summer/all season due to tread and compound. It’s one of the things they are designed for, why they aren’t actually called “snow tyres” and why they are essential in places where people drive on ice for much of the year.

They’re also better on snow because the tread is designed to “lock” the snow into the tyres and use that to grip the snow on the ground.

jpaul said:
hypothesis was : that in the wet sections could be too warm for optimal winter tyre use, so all season would grip better; but the winter tyre on the other side of car would grip the slush/ice well, giving a larger differential.
But after looking it seems 7C is the cut-off point, anyway if the slush were colder than wet section, manouver would be too fast for the tread to 'respond.' (with additional flexibility)

Also I guess manouver is too fast for any stability control to help much to compensate for differential, or save the day (per year it might be an issue in the uk)

Yeah, you’d have to have a massive temperature differential, which is unlikely to ever be the case. Also the drop in grip from an all season to a Winter will be minimal, even above 7 degrees, it’s mostly about wear, and the winter will have a tread better designed to deal with removing the slush from beneath it. So half on, half off, a Winter tyre wil grip the same or better on the dry road and better on the snowy/icy berm.

theone8181 · 14 Dec 2017 at 18:35

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s

I'm not sure how to integrate this vid but it shows grip on ice.

Akagi · 14 Dec 2017 at 20:31

theone8181 said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlYEMH10Z4s

I'm not sure how to integrate this vid but it shows grip on ice.

No way! Thats insane!