So will this guy be arrested?

aln said:
All speech should be free, and only a few exceptions should matter.

1) You can't yell fire in a theatre and watch gleefully whilst people trample one another.
2) You can't ask or suggest someone else commits a crime, in a serious manner.
3) You shouldn't be able to harass people, especially not individuals. By that I mean following someone about insulting them, or something along those lines, not saying something someone doesn't like to a 3rd party, or in a public forum. I guess libel laws fit under this.

Even then the exceptions should be used sparingly, and thoughtfully based on the reasoning and not example matching; ie:-

1) is illegal because its dangerous.
2) is illegal because you're soliciting a crime.
3) is illegal because people have a right not to listen.


I can't really see any reason for not allowing any free speech beyond that.
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Well, words can cause psychological trauma and anything you say is an action you take, unless you're not mentally sound at the time (which could be caused by a number of factors).

So it really comes down to whether you meant to offend someone and hurt them in the process or not. It would be an offense regardless of the harm done.

BUT it shouldn't be used against someone who couldn't really harm anyone by posting **** on his facebook wall...
 
aln said:
All speech should be free, and only a few exceptions should matter.

1) You can't yell fire in a theatre and watch gleefully whilst people trample one another.
2) You can't ask or suggest someone else commits a crime, in a serious manner.
3) You shouldn't be able to harass people, especially not individuals. By that I mean following someone about insulting them, or something along those lines, not saying something someone doesn't like to a 3rd party, or in a public forum. I guess libel laws fit under this.

Even then the exceptions should be used sparingly, and thoughtfully based on the reasoning and not example matching; ie:-

1) is illegal because its dangerous.
2) is illegal because you're soliciting a crime.
3) is illegal because people have a right not to listen.


I can't really see any reason for not allowing any free speech beyond that.
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What is illegal in regards to 'freedom of speech' often crosses over with harassment and bullying. It seems quite obvious to me why both harassment and bullying should be prohibited - it's oppressive and can dramaticly reduce the quality of one's life.

There are obviously going to be grey areas as to what is acceptable and what isn't. All we can do is offer guidance on a case by case basis (which is usually how the law works).
 
Tenzo said:
An overall lack of respect is the problem, it is inherent across the UK.

I bloody wish they'd bring back conscription to the UK, try and build some self respect, patriotism and respect for what the armed forces do. Get all the "hoodies" off the corners and into the forces, it'd be the making of most of them.

Conscription is necessarily the answer, the US does not have it but look at them and their attitude - hell I'm not a massive fanboi of America generally, but the respect and love they have for their Armed Forces is something to behold. Hell they have more respect for the UK Forces than the average joe in the UK for crying out loud. It is sad...

Sadly, what he says is probably not illegal and as much as I would like to smack him in the face, I'm the one who would end up being arrested. Great.
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Meh, thanking the servicemen for doing their job is fine by me, calling them heroes and putting them on pedestal, regardless of whether they take part in a dirty war or a right cause, is taking it a step too far.

There are many Americans who hate this attitude in their country, just as there are British who understand the stressful life of army men but can distinguish between doing right and wrong.

With regards to forcing people against their will to die for somebody's cause...

Seriously? :rolleyes:
 
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Tenzo said:
I bloody wish they'd bring back conscription to the UK
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Nitefly said:
What is illegal in regards to 'freedom of speech' often crosses over with harassment and bullying. It seems quite obvious to me why both harassment and bullying should be prohibited - it's oppressive and can dramaticly reduce the quality of one's life.

There are obviously going to be grey areas as to what is acceptable and what isn't. All we can do is offer guidance on a case by case basis (which is usually how the law works).
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I agree with this, harrasment and bullying should be prohibited. However, both pretty much require intent to harm an individual with words, and require that you somewhat go out of your way to do so.

For example, if you bump into me in the supermarket, and I gave you a tirade of abuse, it's hardly harrasment if you can say "sorry" and walk away. If i were to follow you around said supermarket, continuing on with my abuse, then we're starting to get into the unacceptable area.

If I were to post on twitter, all homos are pedophiles, and black people are stupid, I'm hardly harrasing anyone. People WOULD take offense, but they'd be the ones going out of their way to do so. Don't get me wrong, those opinions are stupid, I just don't think they warrent the wasting of police or legislative time.
 
aln said:
I agree with this, harrasment and bullying should be prohibited. However, both pretty much require intent to harm an individual with words, and require that you somewhat go out of your way to do so.

For example, if you bump into me in the supermarket, and I gave you a tirade of abuse, it's hardly harrasment if you can say "sorry" and walk away. If i were to follow you around said supermarket, continuing on with my abuse, then we're starting to get into the unacceptable area.

If I were to post on twitter, all homos are pedophiles, and black people are stupid, I'm hardly harrasing anyone. People WOULD take offense, but they'd be the ones going out of their way to do so. Don't get me wrong, those opinions are stupid, I just don't think they warrent the wasting of police or legislative time.
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I agree with this entirely, which is why I gave my own 'test' of this above :)

However, should such a person then spam somebodies elses twitter with such remarks, or post on somebody elses facebook wall with intention to provoke and offend, then that is potentially actionable.

Also, harm... very dangerous legal word, because one person's harm is another person's offence. Deliberately harming another by sleeping with their wife isn't a criminal offence at all yet harmlessly stealing a pound coin is.... :eek:

Very interesting discussions can be had around this point. Which takes far too much effort for me to do properly :D
 
Mr Krugga said:
Meh, thanking the servicemen for doing their job is fine by me, calling them heroes and putting them on pedestal, regardless of whether they take part in a dirty war or a right cause, is taking it a step too far.

There are many Americans who hate this attitude in their country, just as there are British who understand the stressful life of army men but can distinguish between doing right and wrong.

With regards to forcing people against their will to die for somebody's cause...

Seriously? :rolleyes:
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There are extremes to any example, but the general support to the Forces in the US is markedly better than the support they receive in the UK and rightly so.

I don't understand the apathy displayed by the majority of the UK public towards the forces and what they do. It likely boils down to the where the war is taking place but disagreeing with the cause is one thing, placing that dislike/disrespect on the guys just doing their job is another.

As for forcing people to die agains their will? Yeah that could happen and it might not, dependant on how they implemented the system.

How about considering the discipline, educational and motivational aspects? The independance, camaraderie etc etc. Not all would get it of course, but I still think it would pick a lot of underachievers up, off the streets, out of crime and fire a rocket up their backside to achieve in life.

I'd do it and I would support my children in doing it.

And steve-h a.k.a Condescending Wonka - no, no direct experience myself. I know people in the Forces, I know some of the plus and minus points to do with service, my father undertook National Service.

What's your witty Wonka meme's point? :)
 
Repetitive harassment over a long period should be punishable as a crime and the length of this period should be at the discretion of a judge. Not what we have at the moment where one comment can land you in an awful lot of trouble. In my opinion the Muamba sentence was a complete waste of tax payer money and court time.
 
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Robbo said:
That's very interesting.

So it's fine to harass and abuse people then? :confused:
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If someone calls me a "two-bit mother****ing cracka ****head donkey fister who molests lemmings" on a pointless internet site, I do not expect them to be arrested or imprisoned. If I happened to be black or had recently had a heart attack, I wouldn't expect it either.

If someone repeatedly stands outside my house hurling abuse at me and I family, I would expect them to be arrested.

That's the difference.
 
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