The Sony A73/A7R3/A7S3/A9 Thread

Raymond Lin · 23 Apr 2017 at 21:45

jonneymendoza said:
Yea but none of the fuji systems are FF.

They are crop so they have smaller lenses and marginally smaller bodies then sony.

Exactly my point, apples and oranges.

You say a 1.8 aperture lens is smaller than a 1.2 aperture lens. Of course it is, it is not the same aperture.

I said a Fuji lens is smaller, of course it is, it is APSC.

Holst1981 · 25 Apr 2017 at 21:51

Raymond Lin said:
Exactly my point, apples and oranges.

You say a 1.8 aperture lens is smaller than a 1.2 aperture lens. Of course it is, it is not the same aperture.

I said a Fuji lens is smaller, of course it is, it is APSC.

These full frame systems will always have a size disadvantage. The larger sensor needs a larger lens. But nikon are making some gains, certainly on the telephoto end recently. Hopefully the lenses will be lighter for the A9, especially the telephoto I'm likely to want.

Unfortunately I think the prices will still be high and second hand nikon being better value.

Nikon and Canon still have a big advantage with legacy lenses. Nice to see Sony advancing the tech, but they need a bit more to tempt me to switch.

Greebo · 26 Apr 2017 at 10:04

My biggest issues with Sony so far is the lack of lens choice (although this is getting better every year) the software which will no doubt improve and the fact you need about 5 batteries.

Raymond Lin · 26 Apr 2017 at 13:19

Holst1981 said:
These full frame systems will always have a size disadvantage. The larger sensor needs a larger lens. But nikon are making some gains, certainly on the telephoto end recently. Hopefully the lenses will be lighter for the A9, especially the telephoto I'm likely to want.

Unfortunately I think the prices will still be high and second hand nikon being better value.

Nikon and Canon still have a big advantage with legacy lenses. Nice to see Sony advancing the tech, but they need a bit more to tempt me to switch.

The trend seem to be heavier and heavier lenses. They have more elements, more groups, bigger motors to drive them.

Some people pick a body and then pick a lens. For me, I pick lenses and then pick the body. It is actually very comforting to know that I could put my new 35Lmk2 on a old film EOS camera that I have and I could go out and shoot a roll of 35mm slide. I don't need a new set up, more toys to play with instantly.

jonneymendoza · 26 Apr 2017 at 16:32

Raymond Lin said:
The trend seem to be heavier and heavier lenses. They have more elements, more groups, bigger motors to drive them.

Some people pick a body and then pick a lens. For me, I pick lenses and then pick the body. It is actually very comforting to know that I could put my new 35Lmk2 on a old film EOS camera that I have and I could go out and shoot a roll of 35mm slide. I don't need a new set up, more toys to play with instantly.

You do know that with many mirror lens cameras the biggest draw by far is that you can mount any lenses from several different mounts!

Greebo · 26 Apr 2017 at 16:34

jonneymendoza said:
You do know that with many mirror lens cameras the biggest draw by far is that you can mount any lenses from several different mounts!

But then totally negates (any) size or weight savings............

jonneymendoza · 26 Apr 2017 at 16:39

Greebo said:
But then totally negates (any) size or weight savings............

Not really!

You can stick one of those tiny Leica lenses on a A7.

Put it this way, A canon shooter could just get rid of there bodies in favour of an A7r2/A9 and be done with it(if they dont shoot above 200 and no fast action sports).

Ive seen many A7 users using 24-70 Canon L glass for pro work.

Raymond Lin · 26 Apr 2017 at 17:03

jonneymendoza said:
You do know that with many mirror lens cameras the biggest draw by far is that you can mount any lenses from several different mounts!

I know that is a draw, like I look at my Fuji and think....I could get this mount and use all these lenses, like my Canon.

Then I realise, why the heck do I want to put my 85/1.2 on a Fuji body....I have a 5D4 right there!!!

I know people do have all these mirrorless and buy these old glass and use manual focus, it sounds great but in reality, not sure how useful that is beyond the fun factor. Most current made lenses are AF and not very good when you use them as MF mode. If I am to buy Leica glass, I might as well put them on a Leica, not a Fuji, if I have the money for a Leica Noctilux I should have money for a leica body.

Yes you can use your A7 for pro work, I took have thought about it but ultimately the AF on it through an adaptor is not what I call consistent, it is inferior to a 5D4 natively. It's fine if you are in a studio and take your time, for me, getting the shot with a more reliable AF is more important than better DR or bigger files.

D.P. · 26 Apr 2017 at 18:42

jonneymendoza said:
You do know that with many mirror lens cameras the biggest draw by far is that you can mount any lenses from several different mounts!

Its not that black and white though. Focus accuracy, consistency and reliability, especially during tracking, is just not there, and its highly variable from lens to lens. And then there are all kinds of rendering issues as well such as left-right color shifts, CA, softness, harsh bokeh.

jonneymendoza · 26 Apr 2017 at 18:46

Raymond Lin said:
I know that is a draw, like I look at my Fuji and think....I could get this mount and use all these lenses, like my Canon.

Then I realise, why the heck do I want to put my 85/1.2 on a Fuji body....I have a 5D4 right there!!!

I know people do have all these mirrorless and buy these old glass and use manual focus, it sounds great but in reality, not sure how useful that is beyond the fun factor. Most current made lenses are AF and not very good when you use them as MF mode. If I am to buy Leica glass, I might as well put them on a Leica, not a Fuji, if I have the money for a Leica Noctilux I should have money for a leica body.

Yes you can use your A7 for pro work, I took have thought about it but ultimately the AF on it through an adaptor is not what I call consistent, it is inferior to a 5D4 natively. It's fine if you are in a studio and take your time, for me, getting the shot with a more reliable AF is more important than better DR or bigger files.

D.P. said:
Its not that black and white though. Focus accuracy, consistency and reliability, especially during tracking, is just not there, and its highly variable from lens to lens. And then there are all kinds of rendering issues as well such as left-right color shifts, CA, softness, harsh bokeh.

Mirrorless camera focuses more accurately then dslr by design. It's the speed that's not as good as dslr.

I own lots of Canon glass and I've never had issues with bokeh colour shifts ca etc etc. This is the first I've heard of it.

I shoot portraits both hobby and pro and none of my clients have moaned about the iq using my canon glass on my A7R2

Raymond Lin · 26 Apr 2017 at 18:51

Most people wouldn't know CA even if you show it to them, the point isn't whether the client notice, the point is whether I notice. Our standards are higher, should be higher.

jonneymendoza · 26 Apr 2017 at 19:27

Raymond Lin said:
Most people wouldn't know CA even if you show it to them, the point isn't whether the client notice, the point is whether I notice. Our standards are higher, should be higher.

Well I don't notice it and my standards are pretty high. Why else did I even buy the A7R2? The iq is astonishing.

Same with lenses. I bought L lenses and I can tell the difference. But what I saying to you is that there is no iq issues on the A7R2. In fact the iq better on my A7R2 then on a 5d using the same lens

jonneymendoza · 27 Apr 2017 at 16:34

first review out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv7ZVSnEtmA&feature=push-u-sub&attr_tag=orrsE4QXG-KtXelG-6

D.P. · 27 Apr 2017 at 16:42

The image at 10seconds just shows how much fail the body shape really is. That is not eve a particularly big lens.

If they want to sell this camera to the pros they need to put the gubbins inside a pro body.

Takes 2 minutes to write the 200shot buffer to card, that is a deal breaker for pros. And that is when using only the single fast slot. Seems liek the 2nd lsot is slwoer and clearing the buffer takes 3 or more minutes. Can you imagine shooting an sports event and you can't take a photo for 2-3 minutes? 200 photos sounds like a lot but that is 10seconds worth if you are shooting at the highest frame rate.

3D tracking works better on D5/D500, soemthign which has been true for Mirrorless vs DSLRs forever.

Only made it to 8mins Got to get back to work now. But really it just highlights that yes, mirror-less will be the future when its ready and at some point Nikon and Canon will have a killer FF mirrorless lineup but Sony A7//A9 are still not in the same league.

jonneymendoza · 27 Apr 2017 at 16:46

I may cancel my pre order. the buffer rate seems like an issue(cant access the menu) no PlayMemory App, no S Log. Not as sharp as my a7r2 when pixel peeping.

There 3s tracking is buggy or not as good as nikons?

jonneymendoza · 27 Apr 2017 at 16:47

samples

https://www.dpreview.com/samples/0552112277/sony-a9-samples-gallery

mattyg · 27 Apr 2017 at 16:55

For me there is a certain feeling you get with a gripped FF body or a D5. It just makes me feel.....More manly...

jonneymendoza · 27 Apr 2017 at 16:56

mattyg said:
For me there is a certain feeling you get with a gripped FF body or a D5. It just makes me feel.....More manly...

You can grip the A9 easily

D.P. · 27 Apr 2017 at 17:15

jonneymendoza said:
I may cancel my pre order. the buffer rate seems like an issue(cant access the menu) no PlayMemory App, no S Log. Not as sharp as my a7r2 when pixel peeping.

There 3s tracking is buggy or not as good as nikons?

In the video you posted he said the 3D tracking of the A9 was good but the Nikon's was better. I don;t think that is an issue for msot people but if Sony want $4.5K for the camera they have to show why.

D.P. · 27 Apr 2017 at 17:43

That is another deal breaker for pros. If the mount flange distance was more like DSLRs then you would have that problem, which is yet another reason why Nikon and Canon will liekly keep the same mount. Otherwise the camera need to be made much wider so there is a better space in the finger grip.