Spec me a Hybrid.

[Psycho Sonny]

I think im going to go and look at both the Auris and the Lexus

from what i can tell, both similar priced for the top spec model
and from what i can also tell, if the Lexus has cruise control (i assume its the button that had the little dial on it with lines on) (for the distance control) so i believe these have emergency collision braking on them


with the Lexus, if I do buy one, do i get pre face lift to save money or go and get the face lift model ? if there any real difference ?

Facelift is much quieter it had like 150 seperates improvements to external sound dampening and has a much better ride due to upgraded suspension.

Try and get f sport, luxury or Premier they tend to come fully loaded.

 

[ShiWarrior]

Yeah, I'm only looking at premier spec, want to get led lights and AEB

 

[jpaul]

Ford seem to be heavily advertising the new Puma, and some reviews on utube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RWTj_8Npjc

whats the benefit of the mild hybrid, which seems to have a battery of unspecified capacity ? - the additional weight and maintenance, for what return ?

All I could see was below explanation - with limited world battery capacity, mild hybrids give a better overall co2 reduction, for the population as a whole, but not necessarily as an individual (for co2 or economy) versus a hybrid ... puma has an atkinson cycle petrol too, like toyota/lexus, plus seems there will be pure diesel versions coming soon.



https://www.automotive-iq.com/elect...les/is-48v-mild-hybrid-ev-mhev-the-co2-savior

According to the company’s analysis, taking into account all electrification strategies, full BEVs currently offer the least effective CO2 reduction per kWh of battery size – 21 times worse than mild hybrids and 14 times worse than full hybrids.
The distance-specific CO2 reduction per unit of battery capacity, in g/km/kWh, indicates that mild hybrids are the most efficient way to reduce CO2, given limited global battery capacity. With a reduction of 73.9g/km/kWh, 48V MHEV technology is a clear winner, with full hybrids coming in second at 50.5g/km/kWh. Due to their disproportionately large batteries, BEVs performed the worst, with a mere 3.5g/km/kWh reduction.

 

[Felix]

whats the benefit of the mild hybrid

Marketing.

 

[MagicBoy]

That "article" appears to be gibberish, it makes my brain hurt reading it. Initial reaction is that it's cherry picked buzz words and quotes from marketing tosh to generate clicks.

 

[MagicBoy]

This seems more sensible : https://jalopnik.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-upcoming-48-volt-1790364465

I can't really see the point, Toyota system seems better at first glance.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Mild hybrid is a simple 48V or even 12V alternator / starter sometimes referred to as BISG. belt integrated starter generator.

It’s more efficient with 48V, start stop is more refined, mild assist from low revs to help pickup using energy recovered whilst braking. Also gives small benefit for CO2 on NEDC, WLTP tends to wants larger battery’s to give a sensible benefit but that of course is at the expense of cost and weight - it might prove value to do that when CO2 compliance fines kick in.

Some cars also use 48V for e-boosters or new wave of e-turbos for better response and allowing a larger main turbo for power. other cars might shift towards the crank integrated starter e machine in the gearbox, more power and less limitation from belt runs as more belt driven parts get replaced the engine is subject to less parasitic losses. Mercedes are marching forward with FEAD removal on their engines with electric water pumps and 48V air compressors.

It’s far from simple marketing.

edit: that Jalopnik article is good, very thorough.

 

[MagicBoy]

Sure, there's some benefits. How much assist can a belt driven alternator sized MGU put out? I'm thinking the 48V cars still require a full 12V system to power a traditional starter motor for cranking from cold.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Yes they do still require a decent sized 12V for the initial crank, cold starts and of course 48V might be lowish SoC when parked. Resting loads require a decent 12V battery aswell. BISG can be up to 15bhp but it’s the torque that they are sized for.

 

[jpaul]

the jalopink article is optmistically suggesting 20% economy, eating into genuine hybrid territory, so ... I think the benefits (of mild) are being overplayed,
it's limited battey capacity for genuine urban, and ... extra urban benefit of 'just' atkinson too.
article doen't appear to discuss additional costs versus a genuine hybrid ... yes - maybe you can continue to use an old chassis and tooling.

edit: .. I think I'd be going for the basic puma w/o mild

edit2: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-ford-puma-pricing-and-spec-details-suv-confirmed

Ford says the hybrid assistance has allowed the engine’s compression ratio to be lowered and a larger turbocharger to be fitted, as the BISG can mitigate turbo lag and keep the engine turning faster.

Performance at lower speeds is especially enhanced, says Steffens, with as much as 50% more torque on offer. That improves fuel economy by around 9% on the WLTP economy test. This three-cylinder engine can also switch to two-cylinder running to save fuel and, in stop/start mode, the BISG can restart the engine in 300 milliseconds. Ford says the 48V model’s overall WLTP economy will be 124g/km.
..
On the handling side, Steffens says the Puma gets a new setting for the electronic power steering, a stiffer attachment for the beam axle and five-stud hubs for a more rigid fixing of the wheels compared with the Fiesta on which it is based.

..
Norbert Steffens, chief engineer, Ford Puma: "The 1.5-litre diesel engine is still very slightly more economical than the new hybrid petrol under WLTP testing conditions. We absolute believe that the latest diesel engines are now completely clean [in pollution terms], as clean as petrol.

ford says 9% economy benefit for mild, although diesel's 'better'
... & no independent rear suspension. & 300ms eats into my safety zone

 

[Jonnycoupe]

20% sounds high. Evoque is around 6%. Realistically the new one is transformational compared to the Mk1 in terms of response from a start. This is thanks to a better engine mount/front end layout and the MHEV system.

 

[Vita]

Well I sold it today.

I had 2 years trouble free motoring and did close to 20k miles at 0.10p a mile. Averaged around 52mpg since logging but the car was faultless.

Only sold it as the car was getting small for us as a family and I plan to now get a larger car. I got what I think is a good price for the condition and sped.

An excellent car which I can recommend if you do a lot of urban trips. I will miss it.

 

[ShiWarrior]

Well I sold it today.

I had 2 years trouble free motoring and did close to 20k miles at 0.10p a mile. Averaged around 52mpg since logging but the car was faultless.

Only sold it as the car was getting small for us as a family and I plan to now get a larger car. I got what I think is a good price for the condition and sped.

An excellent car which I can recommend if you do a lot of urban trips. I will miss it.

what did you get in the end ? (im not reading whole thread again, sorry)

 

[Vita]

what did you get in the end ? (im not reading whole thread again, sorry)

I got a Lexus ct200h.

 

[ShiWarrior]

ah, they do look really nice, i love those
bit small though i agree