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Spec me a Hybrid.

Discussion in 'Motors' started by Vita, Nov 29, 2019.

  1. Psycho Sonny

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jun 21, 2006

    Posts: 33,385

    Facelift is much quieter it had like 150 seperates improvements to external sound dampening and has a much better ride due to upgraded suspension.

    Try and get f sport, luxury or Premier they tend to come fully loaded.
     
  2. ShiWarrior

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 20, 2002

    Posts: 19,934

    Location: Oxon

    Yeah, I'm only looking at premier spec, want to get led lights and AEB
     
  3. jpaul

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 10,952

    Ford seem to be heavily advertising the new Puma, and some reviews on utube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RWTj_8Npjc

    whats the benefit of the mild hybrid, which seems to have a battery of unspecified capacity ? - the additional weight and maintenance, for what return ?

    All I could see was below explanation - with limited world battery capacity, mild hybrids give a better overall co2 reduction, for the population as a whole, but not necessarily as an individual (for co2 or economy) versus a hybrid ... puma has an atkinson cycle petrol too, like toyota/lexus, plus seems there will be pure diesel versions coming soon.



    https://www.automotive-iq.com/elect...les/is-48v-mild-hybrid-ev-mhev-the-co2-savior
     
  4. Felix

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 25, 2003

    Posts: 2,702

    Marketing.
     
  5. MagicBoy

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 16,102

    Location: South Manchester

    That "article" appears to be gibberish, it makes my brain hurt reading it. Initial reaction is that it's cherry picked buzz words and quotes from marketing tosh to generate clicks.
     
  6. MagicBoy

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 16,102

    Location: South Manchester

  7. Jonnycoupe

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 19, 2002

    Posts: 12,171

    Location: N.Warks

    Mild hybrid is a simple 48V or even 12V alternator / starter sometimes referred to as BISG. belt integrated starter generator.

    It’s more efficient with 48V, start stop is more refined, mild assist from low revs to help pickup using energy recovered whilst braking. Also gives small benefit for CO2 on NEDC, WLTP tends to wants larger battery’s to give a sensible benefit but that of course is at the expense of cost and weight - it might prove value to do that when CO2 compliance fines kick in.

    Some cars also use 48V for e-boosters or new wave of e-turbos for better response and allowing a larger main turbo for power. other cars might shift towards the crank integrated starter e machine in the gearbox, more power and less limitation from belt runs as more belt driven parts get replaced the engine is subject to less parasitic losses. Mercedes are marching forward with FEAD removal on their engines with electric water pumps and 48V air compressors.

    It’s far from simple marketing.

    edit: that Jalopnik article is good, very thorough.
     
  8. MagicBoy

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 16,102

    Location: South Manchester

    Sure, there's some benefits. How much assist can a belt driven alternator sized MGU put out? I'm thinking the 48V cars still require a full 12V system to power a traditional starter motor for cranking from cold.
     
  9. Jonnycoupe

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 19, 2002

    Posts: 12,171

    Location: N.Warks

    Yes they do still require a decent sized 12V for the initial crank, cold starts and of course 48V might be lowish SoC when parked. Resting loads require a decent 12V battery aswell. BISG can be up to 15bhp but it’s the torque that they are sized for.
     
  10. jpaul

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 10,952

    the jalopink article is optmistically suggesting 20% economy, eating into genuine hybrid territory, so ... I think the benefits (of mild) are being overplayed,
    it's limited battey capacity for genuine urban, and ... extra urban benefit of 'just' atkinson too.
    article doen't appear to discuss additional costs versus a genuine hybrid ... yes - maybe you can continue to use an old chassis and tooling.

    edit: .. I think I'd be going for the basic puma w/o mild

    edit2: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/new-ford-puma-pricing-and-spec-details-suv-confirmed
    ford says 9% economy benefit for mild, although diesel's 'better'
    ... & no independent rear suspension. & 300ms eats into my safety zone
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
  11. Jonnycoupe

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 19, 2002

    Posts: 12,171

    Location: N.Warks

    20% sounds high. Evoque is around 6%. Realistically the new one is transformational compared to the Mk1 in terms of response from a start. This is thanks to a better engine mount/front end layout and the MHEV system.