@ Spie

Sirrel Squirrel · 15 Apr 2006 at 10:21

The guy in the focus probably decided he didn't want to go fast than 70mph so he eased off as I'm fairly sure that car would have no problem getting past 70

As for the touareg, have to say it is my favourite 4x4, love the styling of it and the interior is superb, would love to have one if I could afford it.

Scania · 15 Apr 2006 at 10:32

[TW]Fox said:
Is the X5 £10k better? Infact, for everything other than... errr, ability to mount mild bumps, it's worse...

Spoken for truth, good as I think the X5 is,is it £10k better? not by a long way.

An X5 is an e39 on stilts, well from the inside anyway.

I've been in London this week, I've seen approx 10 X5 4.8's, great choice of car for Londons free flowing conjestion free routes...... :rolleyes:

PMKeates · 15 Apr 2006 at 10:42

Matt82 said:
the effortless urge, lack of undue noise, sheer cheek of something so barge-like belting along like Mr William Bunter heading to the tuck shop. i like it lol.

its up for sale tho, i want something thats fun more of the time

Get a turbocharged petrol and you'll have the same fun!

A Volvo S60R, for example, would leak all over the E 320 CDI but pull from 2000rpm all the way to 5500rpm, rather than running out of breath at 4000rpm :cool:

It's also likely to have a similar torque-to-the-wheels figure making for good in gear acceleration, if that's your cup of tea.

Matt82 · 15 Apr 2006 at 20:38

what engine does an S60 have? ive had quite a few turbocharged petrol cars, its much of a muchness.

for lazyness you cant beat a diesel. a petrol turbo still has to be revved more than a diesel before it delivers its goods

Oracle · 15 Apr 2006 at 21:26

Matt82 said:
what engine does an S60 have? ive had quite a few turbocharged petrol cars, its much of a muchness.

for lazyness you cant beat a diesel. a petrol turbo still has to be revved more than a diesel before it delivers its goods

Can > Worms (although I wholeheartedly agree with you). My torque comes in from 1850 and pulls me round to 4750ish, without skipping a beat. Now thats fun!

Matt82 · 15 Apr 2006 at 21:40

i think pretty much any car can be fun, they all have merit in their own way

PMKeates · 15 Apr 2006 at 22:23

Matt82 said:
what engine does an S60 have? ive had quite a few turbocharged petrol cars, its much of a muchness.

for lazyness you cant beat a diesel. a petrol turbo still has to be revved more than a diesel before it delivers its goods

Not necessarily such a big a difference as you'd imagine. The S60R uses Volvo's 2.5L T5 engine in 300 PS guise. It produces 400 Nm of torque at 1950rpm, so the maximum accelerative ability of the car will commence at 1950rpm and remain fairly constant until at least 5500rpm.

The E 320 CDI produces 510 Nm from 1600-2800rpm, dropping to ~420 Nm @ 3800rpm. Factor in the +5% weight of the Merc, and relatively the figures become 485 Nm and 400 Nm respectively. Factor in again that to accommodate what is a low-revving diesel engine, the gear ratios will force the resultant torque down even more, and your looking at a pretty level playing field from 2000-3000rpm, with the S60R maintaing the grunt for another 2500rpm after that!

Oracle · 15 Apr 2006 at 22:28

PMKeates said:
Not necessarily such a big a difference as you'd imagine. The S60R uses Volvo's 2.5L T5 engine in 300 PS guise. It produces 400 Nm of torque at 1950rpm, so the maximum accelerative ability of the car will commence at 1950rpm and remain fairly constant until at least 5500rpm.

The E 320 CDI produces 510 Nm from 1600-2800rpm, dropping to ~420 Nm @ 3800rpm. Factor in the +5% weight of the Merc, and relatively the figures become 485 Nm and 400 Nm respectively. Factor in again that to accommodate what is a low-revving diesel engine, the gear ratios will force the resultant torque down even more, and your looking at a pretty level playing field from 2000-3000rpm, with the S60R maintaing the grunt for another 2500rpm after that!

True, but by which point the Merc will be in the next gear, re-applying its maximum torque again from low down in the rev range.

Its something theoretically you can argue all day long. But on the road you can really see that there is not a lot of difference.

The E46 330d can abslolutely wet all over the 328 and is marginally slower to 100 than the 330 petrol. Purely becuase it needs a gear change!!

in fact, its so close to 100mph, its .3 of second close!

[TW]Fox · 15 Apr 2006 at 22:29

Oracle said:
The E46 330d can abslolutely wet all over the 328 and is marginally slower to 100 than the 330 petrol. Purely becuase it needs a gear change!!

Correct.

I've now driven both 530i and 530d.

The 530i.... sounds better. Thats about it. The 530d certainly feels quicker, is easier to drive quicker, and the urge is there whichever gear you are in.

PMKeates · 15 Apr 2006 at 22:30

Oracle said:
True, but by which point the Merc will be in the next gear, re-applying its maximum torque again from low down in the rev range.

Its something theoretically you can argue all day long. But on the road you can really see that there is not a lot of difference.

The E46 330d can abslolutely wet all over the 328 and is marginally slower to 100 than the 330 petrol. Purely becuase it needs a gear change!!

in fact, its so close to 100mph, its .3 of second close!

My argument is that the actual torque to the wheels in relation to the weight of the vehicle will be little different, and applied just 350rpm earlier than the Volvo. Not really a fair trade off for losing the torque high up in the rev range

Matt82 · 15 Apr 2006 at 22:44

about 4 years ago i had a 530d (2000 model i think it was) with the semi auto box.

a chase was organised with a 97 e36 328 manual which did have some go fast bits on it.

from 40-100kph the 328 managedto initially pull a lead, the rear bumper of the 328 was inline with the frontbumper of the 530d.

at about 90kph the 530d came levelwith the doors on the 328 and it stayed like that upto 130, the 328 being slowly reeled in.

that was a 530d auto against a 328 manual, but below 100 the 328 definately had the edge

not a lot in it, but its just funny to see such a large barge of a car (530d or e320cdi) belting it down the road, its unexpected which is funny lol

PMKeates · 15 Apr 2006 at 22:49

Fair enough - the sleeper thing is nice. Sorta why I suggested the Volvo. Most people don't expect it to be 4WD with 300PS

If it has to be a diesel, the pricey Phaeton 5.0 V10 TDI is probably the doziest oil burner

Conanius · 15 Apr 2006 at 23:43

The issue with diesel imo is that almost regardless of performance, theres nothing quite like the noise of a decent sounding petrol engine being given some beans... have a listen to the vid of the puma in my Puma Pics vid if you want proof

Matt82 · 15 Apr 2006 at 23:46

amen.

my beloved 1.2 16v billabong clio of a couple years ago was a rev-tastic bundle of fizzy fun.

the valves would get their little party hats on and rev to silly high numbers and it was just more fun to generally have a muck about with.

i think men were designed to rev things, it in our blood

Conanius · 16 Apr 2006 at 00:09

Matt82 said:
amen.

my beloved 1.2 16v billabong clio of a couple years ago was a rev-tastic bundle of fizzy fun.

the valves would get their little party hats on and rev to silly high numbers and it was just more fun to generally have a muck about with.

i think men were designed to rev things, it in our blood

not quite what I had in mind

Matt82 · 16 Apr 2006 at 00:59

revving is only in my blood then? lol

moss · 16 Apr 2006 at 01:00

Matt82 said:
revving is only in my blood then? lol

I think he was referring the engine itself, not the revving thing, my mate had a 1.2 16v Billabong clio, it sounded more like a hair drier when pushed hard.

-Neil- · 16 Apr 2006 at 01:06

I'd like to have a go in the Audi A8 with the diesel 4.2l V8,
320Bhp and god knows how much torque.
60 comes up in 5.7s

Neil.

Matt82 · 16 Apr 2006 at 01:11

moss said:
I think he was referring the engine itself, not the revving thing, my mate had a 1.2 16v Billabong clio, it sounded more like a hair drier when pushed hard.

but even something as simple, slow etc as a 1.2 clio can be fun when taken for a thrash

The_Dark_Side · 16 Apr 2006 at 12:43

PMKeates said:
If it has to be a diesel, the pricey Phaeton 5.0 V10 TDI is probably the doziest oil burner

amen to that.
/still irked that i haven't had the oppertunity to drive one as yet though

-Neil- said:
I'd like to have a go in the Audi A8 with the diesel 4.2l V8,
320Bhp and god knows how much torque.
60 comes up in 5.7s

Neil.

about 70 foot pounds less than the VW