Spurring off of a boiler circuit

Soldato
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So the plumber actually plugged the boiler into a socket/plug.

is that just him being lazy or is there a reason why he did it this way as opposed to using a junction box?

Because he's a plumber and not an electrician? Do you have heating controls? Or do you just turn the boiler on and off to control your heating?
 
Soldato
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Because he's a plumber and not an electrician? Do you have heating controls? Or do you just turn the boiler on and off to control your heating?

what do u mean by controls?

It is an old school on and off wickes thing on the wall
Comes on twice a day as per the settings
 
Soldato
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what do u mean by controls?

It is an old school on and off wickes thing on the wall
Comes on twice a day as per the settings

Controls as in programmable room stat.

Currently it working off of a internal clock and gets it's power from a socket outlet.

So when your house gets upto temp it just keeps pumping out that heat.
 
Soldato
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Yep pretty much i think

its an old system boiler about 5/6 years old
Do all boilers come with plugs? Lol
 
Associate
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So the plumber actually plugged the boiler into a socket/plug.

is that just him being lazy or is there a reason why he did it this way as opposed to using a junction box?

Plumbers like plugs because when they pull them out they know the boiler is dead. Electricians normally use fused connection units (FCU). If the FCU is connected correctly then there is no problem using one, the problem arises when someone wires it up wrong because the switch or fuse only interrupts 1 pole, this has to be the live pole.

Anyway if it is a dedicated boiler circuit and its a gas boiler then it will be fine to spur from it however if you have to ask this question i recommend that you don't and instead hire someong like an electrician who knows what they are doing
 
Soldato
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Plumbers like plugs because when they pull them out they know the boiler is dead. Electricians normally use fused connection units (FCU). If the FCU is connected correctly then there is no problem using one, the problem arises when someone wires it up wrong because the switch or fuse only interrupts 1 pole, this has to be the live pole.

Anyway if it is a dedicated boiler circuit and its a gas boiler then it will be fine to spur from it however if you have to ask this question i recommend that you don't and instead hire someong like an electrician who knows what they are doing
It is permitted to have a boiler plugged in but it should be to a socket without a switch so you have to physically pull the plug to isolate it. This is because a plug socket only switches the live where a fuses spur switches both live and neutral.
 
Soldato
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A 5/6 year old boiler isn’t old by any stretch. It’s also normal for boilers to be on plugs or switched fused units, in the normal ring main or have their own circuit (which would normally be a radial rather than a ring if it’s just going to one appliance).


My advice would be to get an electrician, or at least post some pictures or wiring diagrams so people have a chance of giving some sound advice. Lots of post in here already contradict each other.
 
Soldato
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So funnily enough the circuit in question is not what i got told…

it basically a single socket that has a plug running to the kitchen extractor hood lol

good news to be honest as i did not want to mess around with the boiler circuit. This is just the hood and kitchen sockets as far as I know.


So one single socket with a plug in currently
Should i change that to a double socket for the led light to have a plug on or would a junction box be better here?

thoughts? And what amp should the plug be?

24 v led striplights with a driver and wireless controller setup
 
Soldato
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If you are talking about the fuse in the plug that's on the 240ac side then I think 3 amp fuse are generally the smallest common ones, that'll be plenty.

You can get even lower fuses for plugs, you'd have to work out the power draw on the LED lights though, it might tell you, probably could go like .5amp or something but it's kinda overkill protection, 3amp fuse will be fine.
 
Soldato
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5amp might do it
Loooking at this here

https://www.led-lighthouse.co.uk/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=218

why no earth wire though or where would that even be doable for the plug?
It's a Class 2 device which means it's double insulated - the entire shell is plastic. This means there's nothing conductive which the user could touch, that needs earthing for their safety. Look in the photo for the square-inside-a-square logo. That means double insulated.
I understand, but if there's a fault his 12v led lights could now be a conduit for 32 amps into somebody, in the kitchen.
Just run an inline fuse on the spur.
Can I be really clear here: Fuses are ****-all to do with protecting humans from electrocution. Do not make the mistake of associating fuses with shock safety.

A fuse takes a good amount of time at a certain amount (tens of %) over its limit, to burn out. The current needed to harm or instantly kill a human is mA (milliamps). Whole amps would mean you're being fried, cooked.

- Fuses protect the cable leading to an appliance.

- MCBs in the fuse box protect the cables in your walls/floor etc.

- Protecting a device from too much current is down to what's inside the device (often another fuse chosen by the manufacturer)

RCD devices protect humans by detecting even the tiniest current travelling down to earth. In a properly working circuit the current is flowing from live to neutral and earth is not part of the circuit at all.
 
Soldato
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It's a Class 2 device which means it's double insulated - the entire shell is plastic. This means there's nothing conductive which the user could touch, that needs earthing for their safety. Look in the photo for the square-inside-a-square logo. That means double insulated.


Can I be really clear here: Fuses are ****-all to do with protecting humans from electrocution. Do not make the mistake of associating fuses with shock safety.

A fuse takes a good amount of time at a certain amount (tens of %) over its limit, to burn out. The current needed to harm or instantly kill a human is mA (milliamps). Whole amps would mean you're being fried, cooked.

- Fuses protect the cable leading to an appliance.

- MCBs in the fuse box protect the cables in your walls/floor etc.

- Protecting a device from too much current is down to what's inside the device (often another fuse chosen by the manufacturer)

RCD devices protect humans by detecting even the tiniest current travelling down to earth. In a properly working circuit the current is flowing from live to neutral and earth is not part of the circuit at all.

It's the risk of fire following a short.

Don't sit in the bath and drop your toaster in.
 
Soldato
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I googled around, seems its permitted as long as the load is fine, and the cable rating is considered, but most people seem to suggest that finding a better way is preferable. Although technically OK, it seems wrong to have lights etc wired on to your boiler circuit. Brilliant for the next guy to come and figure out. OP should wire in a round pin socket for the switched on the lighting circuit i.e. do it properly.

I remember reading same when I wanted to spur off one in the loft as it was less work. I spoke to the spark who installed and as he was returning to install other work a few weeks later he said he would do it (and he took spur off another socket in the ring).
 
Associate
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It is permitted to have a boiler plugged in but it should be to a socket without a switch so you have to physically pull the plug to isolate it. This is because a plug socket only switches the live where a fuses spur switches both live and neutral.

Is this in the gas Regs because I haven't seen that in BS7671
 
Soldato
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Plumbers like plugs because when they pull them out they know the boiler is dead. Electricians normally use fused connection units (FCU). If the FCU is connected correctly then there is no problem using one, the problem arises when someone wires it up wrong because the switch or fuse only interrupts 1 pole, this has to be the live pole.

Also sometimes although not dangerous shorting between neutral and earth can cause an RCD to trip which in some cases could plunge the whole house into darkness.
 
Associate
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Also sometimes although not dangerous shorting between neutral and earth can cause an RCD to trip which in some cases could plunge the whole house into darkness.
seen that happen loads of time, it's always a plumber spring from a single socket to feed a boiler. it doesn't show up untill I do my testing before a board change.
 
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