Standard of driving in the UK going downhill.

Soldato
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10 Mar 2012
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Today I discovered a possible source of the decline in standards. Extremely poor instruction by "qualified" driving instructors.

Earlier I narrowly avoided t-boning a learner who pulled out on me, whilst I was driving a double decker (so not exactly hard to see).

Evidently he wasn't paying any attention to his learner or the roads.
 
Soldato
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Saw some truly shocking driving yesterday :eek: Black Mercedes Saloon (recent model could not see which type) undertook me & the other 3 lanes of M40 (between junctions 6-5 heading towards London) on the inside via the hard shoulder!! just avoiding a white van which managed to swerve out of his way to avoid a big impact :mad: (I was only doing 70mph this nutter flew by us at massive speed like we were standing still & kept on going :eek:).

If any police were around he quite rightly would not have been able to drive that vehicle home :mad: I hope someone got some dashcam footage & sent to the police as its so obvious how dangerous it was the driver only just avoided going up the grass verge & taking several cars out at once & causing a massive pile up as he was barely in control of the vehicle & lucky to not cause a horrific accident :(
 
Soldato
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Saw some truly shocking driving yesterday :eek: Black Mercedes Saloon (recent model could not see which type) undertook me & the other 3 lanes of M40 (between junctions 6-5 heading towards London) on the inside via the hard shoulder!! just avoiding a white van which managed to swerve out of his way to avoid a big impact :mad: (I was only doing 70mph this nutter flew by us at massive speed like we were standing still & kept on going :eek:).

If any police were around he quite rightly would not have been able to drive that vehicle home :mad: I hope someone got some dashcam footage & sent to the police as its so obvious how dangerous it was the driver only just avoided going up the grass verge & taking several cars out at once & causing a massive pile up as he was barely in control of the vehicle & lucky to not cause a horrific accident :(
Sure it wasn't a smart motorway:cry:. Weirdly a guy I work with had something similar happen near Leeds, except everyone in lane 1, 2 and3 were doing 60, but somebody undertook on the hard shoulder.

Oh and re driving instructors, I've seen plenty that are very poor when no learners are in the car, and many learners in proper instructor cars not indicating, or for some bizarre reason being taken on an nsl road then doing 30 mph as they lack the confidence which is just dangerous imo.
 
Man of Honour
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Seeing more and more people jumping red lights lately :( 3 out of the last 4 nights I've had someone jump the same cross-roads and it isn't like there isn't a glaringly obvious reason why they have traffic lights for safety reasons...

I live near Manchester, and around here red light jumping is second nature to the locals. And it's not a recent change either. I once went through a light where it went red as I crossed the white line. FOUR cars followed me through. When I was test driving my current car two cars collided right in front of me due to one of them jumping a red. Sadly there was nowhere safe for me to pull over and offer to be a witness.
 
Soldato
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Sure it wasn't a smart motorway:cry:. Weirdly a guy I work with had something similar happen near Leeds, except everyone in lane 1, 2 and3 were doing 60, but somebody undertook on the hard shoulder.

Oh and re driving instructors, I've seen plenty that are very poor when no learners are in the car, and many learners in proper instructor cars not indicating, or for some bizarre reason being taken on an nsl road then doing 30 mph as they lack the confidence which is just dangerous imo.
Nope not smart at all just plain motorway M40 near cotswolds! Shocking driving the driver only just kept control he was swerving all over the place & narrowly missed going up the verge which would have launched him onto a whole bunch of vehicles with lots of small children & family in them on a sunday drive :eek::mad: If any footage exists & the police get it the driver will lose their licence it was so dangerous at such high speed :(
 
Soldato
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I live near Manchester, and around here red light jumping is second nature to the locals. And it's not a recent change either. I once went through a light where it went red as I crossed the white line. FOUR cars followed me through. When I was test driving my current car two cars collided right in front of me due to one of them jumping a red. Sadly there was nowhere safe for me to pull over and offer to be a witness.
Tbh you should have been stopping (I'm not going to judge, I'm sure we've all had to make that choice and sometimes it's safer not to stop at the Amber depending on how long it's been on and what kind of weather it is).
 
Soldato
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Tbh you should have been stopping (I'm not going to judge, I'm sure we've all had to make that choice and sometimes it's safer not to stop at the Amber depending on how long it's been on and what kind of weather it is).
I find more often than not you couldn't safely so because you'd have to brake so hard the idiot that's behind driving too close might go in the back of you. Alone I'll stop as long as it's not going to involve an emergency stop or brake pedal to the floor ABS kicking in.
 
Soldato
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you , practically, shouldn't be driving the speed limit approaching lights at 50mph .. like local a10, the amber time should be extended.

Since amber appears to be 3s (+/-0.25s) - this seem pretty marginal for a 50mph zone
@50mph you cover 67.5m in 3s (62m in 2.75s)
@50mph stopping distance from (antiquated ?) highway code is 53m 13 car lengths.
 
Caporegime
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I noticed the word "antiquated" used there. People assume stopping distances are old and archaic with modern car brakes and they will be correct on that point. Sadly since the stopping distances were done the typical UK driver seems to have become less observant and the thinking time in studies is now much longer than the HC uses so the end result is that the overall stopping distance is still pretty much what it used to be when it was written.
 
Soldato
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Probably close to correct for SUVs on crap tyres. Which seems to be the in thing. Chances are if you slam the brakes on in something which can stop quickly, one of those will go in to the back of you.
 
Soldato
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Brake distance is always an interesting one. My last few cars have been fairly high performance and I don't skimp on tyres and I think some/all of the distances are ********. I reckon the vast majority of cars now could brake from 70 in a good 40-50 metres if not less. Yes that is a total finger in the wind measurement, and relies on the driving paying attention and not having ling long ditchfinder pros on. Even my mums 17 year old a class doesn't take that long to stop from speed, just takes a long time to get there:cry:.
 
Soldato
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I noticed the word "antiquated" used there. People assume stopping distances are old and archaic with modern car brakes and they will be correct on that point. Sadly since the stopping distances were done the typical UK driver seems to have become less observant and the thinking time in studies is now much longer than the HC uses so the end result is that the overall stopping distance is still pretty much what it used to be when it was written.

.... reaction+peak braking time increases with those ACC on, drivers - earlier linked study - 751->944ms
In both conditions, we measured the brake reaction time (BRT), the delay to produce the peak braking force (PBD), the total emergency braking response (BRT + PBD), and the peak braking force (PBF). Electromyograms of leg and thigh muscles were recorded during braking. The Tonic Vibratory Response (TVR), Hoffman reflex (HR), and M-waves were recorded in leg muscles to explore the change in the sensorimotor control. Results: No difference in PBF, TVR amplitude, HR latency, and Hmax/Mmax ratio were found between the Control and CC/ACC conditions. On the other hand, BRT and PBD were significantly lengthened in the CC/ACC condition (240 +/− 13 ms and 704 +/− 70 ms, respectively) compared to Control (183 +/− 7 ms and 568 +/− 36 ms, respectively)
 
Caporegime
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Probably close to correct for SUVs on crap tyres. Which seems to be the in thing. Chances are if you slam the brakes on in something which can stop quickly, one of those will go in to the back of you.
Brake distance is always an interesting one. My last few cars have been fairly high performance and I don't skimp on tyres and I think some/all of the distances are ********. I reckon the vast majority of cars now could brake from 70 in a good 40-50 metres if not less. Yes that is a total finger in the wind measurement, and relies on the driving paying attention and not having ling long ditchfinder pros on. Even my mums 17 year old a class doesn't take that long to stop from speed, just takes a long time to get there:cry:.

As jpaul quoted, nobody is disputing that breaking distances on modern cars arent very much shorter, esp performance cars but the average persons reaction time has got much longer ao people on cruise control take an average of almost 1 sec before the car is doing peak breaking.

I think from memory the HC assumes a reaction time of 0.5 seconds on average. So its good job cars do stop quicker once they are starting to brake as people are taking up to 0.5 seconds longer before they do brake.

AT 50 mph thats another 11m thinking time before you brake which means the car needs to stop you 11m quicker than cars used to in the old days.

Thats why despite people saying the HC should be updated to reflect modern cars braking performance, they dont as they know that the overall distances are about right.

the issue then comes with quick reaction observant drivers in high performance cars. They react super quickly (0.3secs or less) and then stop on a sixpence. The car behind then slams into them...................
 
Associate
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I know it's getting bad with cars running red lights but it wasn't until last night when I was waiting to cross the road at a pelican crossing the I noticed several cars actually speed up when the lights changed to amber.
 
Soldato
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Had one this morning.
M60 through the 50mph section so cruise set to 52. Getting off for my junction (26) and as I take the slip road a car is inches from my number can't see their lights. Eventually overtakes me and pulls sharply in front of me and slows down. Mustn't have liked the fact I didn't speed up. Immediately at the end of the slip road are red lights so I was just slowing down for them.

Lights turn green they move off at 5mph must be proving some point so i overtake then she proceed at 50 (the limit). Immediately get overtaken and they slam on in front off me hazards going and everything so I just slow down to 40 and let them get on with what ever they are doing.

Seriously what is wrong with some people why do they get so angry in their cars. Why the need to accelerate to a set of red lights.
 
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Man of Honour
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Idiots gonna idiot I guess :(

Had one couple of nights ago - came up behind me in a 30, me doing a good 30, them doing probably 50-60 then just sat behind me so close I couldn't see their headlights despite a couple of good chances later to overtake me - I think trying to make some kind of point. I just kept to the speed limit and drove with a good tolerance for stopping and ignored them until eventually they turned off.

Silly thing is as I'm driving a much larger vehicle than them it'll most likely be they who come off worse if they go into the back of me.
 
Soldato
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In hindsight I should have just slowed down even more and just let them get bored and move on. Annoying when you just want to get away from them and carry on with your journey for them to see it as some sort of challenge.
 
Man of Honour
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In hindsight I should have just slowed down even more and just let them get bored and move on. Annoying when you just want to get away from them and carry on with your journey for them to see it as some sort of challenge.

Yeah especially if you've had a hard day at work, etc. and just want to get home and relax. Life is too short for people up their own behind like that.

Also unnecessarily contributes to potential for accidents - I nearly went through a red light awhile ago because it changed on me while I was somewhat worrying about the driver behind me who was tailgating and doing other silly stuff :(
 
Man of Honour
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Out driving just now - foggy generally and for a mile or so quite dense so I slowed down to appropriate speed for the conditions, car behind me didn't like it at all, yet didn't overtake when the opportunities came up on the open road instead acting aggressively behind me especially when I got into a 40 and then 30 getting so close up behind me as I was braking for the speed change they were probably less than a foot from my rear bumper. Then choose to overtake me in the 30 on the approach to traffic lights - funny enough I forgot for a moment to turn off my high beams as I was a bit preoccupied with what they were up to - I think they intended to brake check me after pulling in front from the way they were driving but with my high beams on possibly couldn't see well enough to judge it as they then setup as if to brake check me again at the traffic lights after I'd turned off my high beams but I was turning off.
 
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