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Stopped eating meat a year ago, realisations since

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Combat squirrel, Jun 30, 2019.

  1. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 30,208


    Red meat gives cancer, so does the pepperoni on a pizza.

    We also evolved to eat the ingredients in meat-free alternatives such as pea protein and soya, so that is a rather empty argument.
     
  2. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 30,208

    For lab grown meat it is mostly a texture issue, with a scaling problem that will be solved soon. The ab grown meat makes great meat for a sausage for example, but we are a long long way from making a steak.
     
  3. Rofflay

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 28, 2006

    Posts: 4,551

    Location: N Ireland

    Well i plan on moving to a little bit of Salami and Pepperoni being my only meats. Are they really that bad? I plan on my Irish veg soup and Pizza being my meals and a lot of fruit and nuts when i am looking for food but not wanting to cook meals again.


    Cooking big meat meals like steak inside really put me off, Super smelly greasy and if look at someone who cooked and then goes out thier face and mine is always looking oily. It just seems a lot more hassle and more grimey than veg meals or pizza.
     
  4. Jono8

    Caporegime

    Joined: May 20, 2007

    Posts: 29,087

    Location: Surrey

    Well they are processed so not great.

    If you are going to make something your only meat, chicken or Turkey would be the healthiest.
     
  5. PlacidCasual

    Soldato

    Joined: May 13, 2003

    Posts: 6,081

  6. Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Aug 4, 2007

    Posts: 9,843

    Location: Wilds of suffolk

    No, what they said is on an individual basis the risk is almost negligeable, but when looking at 1000 population the increase in risk is noticable
     
  7. Rofflay

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 28, 2006

    Posts: 4,551

    Location: N Ireland

    Yea i was doing turkey actually but it makes Christmas meals seem like another normal day. I prefer it over chicken and when they sell Turkey crown it is easy to roast. I see also having OCD Turkey and chicken are by far the least greasy compared to frying a big steak. It felt like i was ok with Turkey but getting put off steak and mince and anything that would be fried.


    If you put foil down on the roaster too, There is very little cleanup with Turkey as well which is awesome.
     
  8. PlacidCasual

    Soldato

    Joined: May 13, 2003

    Posts: 6,081

  9. Rofflay

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 28, 2006

    Posts: 4,551

    Location: N Ireland

    Wrong button woops
     
  10. Tony Edwards

    Mobster

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 3,581

    Ive got to be honest when I read the report it sounded like it was financed by the red meat industry.
     
  11. Angilion

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Dec 5, 2003

    Posts: 16,407

    Location: Just to the left of my PC

    Probably not good but probably not that bad. The data is rather less clear-cut than media reports make it out to be. "Processed meats" is an unclear term anyway, but Salami and Pepperoni almost certainly count. The general trend of probably meaningful evidence shows that they are associated with a very small increase in risk of some serious (including fatal) medical problems or maybe with a larger increase in risk for some people and no increase in risk for other people, but there's no way to be certain. It's not possible to run a definitive study and it wouldn't be ethical even if it was possible. But is the association causation or just correlation? It's certainly possible that people who eat more processed meat are more likely to have a less healthy lifestyle overall, for example. Is the association even really there? It only appears in self-reported observational studies on diet, which are not very good evidence.

    So yeah...probably a bit bad. Probably.

    Which only means that enough people with enough clout disagree with it or that the media want to portray it that way. In this case, the former. Most medical bodies do disagree with it. It's not new data - it's a different interpretation of the same data. So calling it a study is a bit misleading - it's the same studies, interpreted differently.

    Here's a video by a cardiologist and medical researcher about those papers, the previous papers and the studies that they both used. It's quite different to the usual reporting because (a) they have read and understood the studies and both sets of papers and (b) they're not picking a side and exaggerating it in order to sell views/papers. For example, did you know that the data used by both sets of papers is described as "low to very low quality evidence"? It's just not possible to run a definitive study and wouldn't be ethical even if it was possible. You can't take a group of people large enough and representative enough to be meaningful, split them into two groups, feed each a different diet completely controlled by researchers for years and have each with the same other relevant factors (sleep, exercise, genetics, bodyfat amounts, etc, etc) and then compare the outcomes. The data could still be meaningful if the results were very clear, but they're not. 4 people in 1000 over a period of 11 years, maybe. The signal to noise ratio is very low.



    I was going to summarise it, but I think that 10 minute video is about as brief a summary as can reasonably be made.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
  12. Angilion

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Dec 5, 2003

    Posts: 16,407

    Location: Just to the left of my PC

    No, that's what the earlier papers said. The recent ones disagree, to some extent.
     
  13. Yadda

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 19, 2009

    Posts: 2,472

    Location: Baa

    There are lots of highly processed vegan convenience foods on the market these days. They must be very attractive to the new generation of vegans and far more appealing (and profitable, of course) than the old vegan image of "lentils and veg in pot" (...which I'm actually quite fond of from time-to-time, despite not being a veggie/vegan).

    Over the next few decades it'll be interesting to see what effect they have on health in comparison to people who a) eat low quality (i.e. highly processed) meat based diets and b) eat high quality (i.e. non-highly processed, high welfare) meat based diets.
     
  14. D.P.

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 30,208


    The recent one is a single outlier, and doesn't actually disprove what he earlier paper reported, it merely cautions that the effect size is weak, which is well known. The recent paper mostly just cautions that additional research would be beneficial. The media headlines grossly misinterpreted that.
     
  15. snips86x

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 14, 2012

    Posts: 16,462

    Location: Close to Swindon, but not Swindon

    @Combat squirrel - Loved reading your OP, it is something I'm quite pationate about. I have been vegan for about 3 years now and was pescatarian previously. My sister actually got me into watching a short film on Netflix on the effect that dairy proteins have on the body. For me, at-least, that's when the penny dropped. It's quite shocking when you think about it.

    I'm also lactose intolerant so cutting out dairy wasn't exactly difficult. I've also been drinking and using plant based milks for a long time before going vegan anyway, so I was used to the alternatives. Nice to see so many readily available now as well. Oatly is my go-to. The one thing I noticed is that I don't feel so slow or bloated anymore. My body has welcomed the change and it's been a fantastic journey. There are soooo many meat alternatives now that I'd never consider going back. My choice was mainly for the animals as well, the farming/dairy industry is disgusting and unsustainable at the rate animals are being bred and slaughtered.

    My girlfriend, who is also Vegan, made an incredible raw vegan cheesecake. It was sublime. I see her most weekends and we'll take turns to cook, but it's nice being able to cook for someone who shares your beliefs and passions.

    Congratulation on making the jump, it's a total eye opener isn't it.

    To those who are slating veganism, I'd suggest you look into the reasons why people have decided to make this change. There are hundreds of reasons why it's worth it, not just for your mind and body, but for the environment and animal cruelty reasons also. Your might well 'believe' that we're "evolved" to consume meat and you're probably right (if you're hunting your own food sources). However, you're looking through rose tinted glasses. The industry now is nothing short of disgusting with everything that gets pumped into the animal feed, and if you looked into what the "meat" actually contained, and how it affects your body, I think you'd look at it differently. We are however, entitled to our own opinions :)
     
  16. AndyCr15

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Apr 28, 2011

    Posts: 9,665

    Location: London, UK

    Not that I know 'the industry', but it sounds to me like you watched a TV show or two on the worst case situations and are applying that to an entire industry.
     
  17. snips86x

    Capodecina

    Joined: Nov 14, 2012

    Posts: 16,462

    Location: Close to Swindon, but not Swindon

    The show as the starting point for me, the more you dig, the worse it gets. I'm not basing my entire change to a plant based diet solely on that, it was just the trigger.
     
  18. AndyCr15

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Apr 28, 2011

    Posts: 9,665

    Location: London, UK

    I would hope not, as if there are some farms/producers mistreating animals etc, to stop eating meat would probably be the very least you could do. Possibly even not as good as just buying it from reputable sellers... their competition.
     
  19. AHarvey

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Mar 6, 2008

    Posts: 9,759

    Location: Stoke area

    I've many vegetarian and vegan friends and I completely respect their choices in life, if I go to their house for food sometimes you get meat and sometimes you don't, sometimes it's a vegan meal. I don't care, I respect their beliefs and the reason we get on so well, is because they respect mine.

    It's like religion, it's your choice, your belief, as long as you are not forcing that down my throat we won't have an issue.

    That's the reason people have negative opinions on vegans, it's because of those that go around causing issues for others or trying to make them feel bad for having a different opinion



    Quotes such as this are a prime example. "We are all entitled to our own opinions" which is a great way to accept it, however, you still had throw in all the negatives. That's why people slate veganism. You don't help your cause.

    I spent over a decade working in the food industry and I can tell you now, even the organic food you buy isn't always what you think.

    Unless you're growing/feeding, picking/killing your own food you really have no idea what else goes on with it. :)
     
  20. Combat squirrel

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 7, 2004

    Posts: 10,046

    The game changers is now on netflix so won't cost extra to view if you already have a subscription