Super Aguri has pulled out of Formula 1

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Is a real shame, though was more a question of when than if. They always did a good job and punched well above their weight on a number of occasions.

Hope both Sata and Davidson get drives in the near future.
 
i would say this will have a big effect in F1, yes yes i know its a low end team, but its 2 less cars for the other low end team to compete against and try and beat.

They seriously need to start getting F1 into a more financial stable state suitable for Teams like Aguri. And Limit the amount of things can be done to the cars once the season has started. as Devolpment never stops and as such bigger teams can progress. Bring back the 90's era of F1.
 
You cant fully blame F1. The major issues came as the SS United sponsor never paid up. It would be like Vodaphone not paying McLaren, it would have a big effect.

Shame, I liked Super Aguri...
 
KnightStalker said:
i would say this will have a big effect in F1, yes yes i know its a low end team, but its 2 less cars for the other low end team to compete against and try and beat.

They seriously need to start getting F1 into a more financial stable state suitable for Teams like Aguri. And Limit the amount of things can be done to the cars once the season has started. as Devolpment never stops and as such bigger teams can progress. Bring back the 90's era of F1.
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Its hard to believe Williams budget just 10 years ago was 35 million. Back then they were a player now they cannot compete with the financial clout of the other top teams.

Toyota have the money but no idea how to spend it.

They wont continue to pour money in for no return, neither will BMW.

Mclaren and Ferrari are destroying F1 unintentionally. The budgets have gotten so high it's practically impossible to lure new backers and owners to the sport. The costs now to even get on the grid are so high it's really not worth the effort in the hope you can get an 8th place.
 
dannyjo22 said:
Its hard to believe Williams budget just 10 years ago was 35 million. Back then they were a player now they cannot compete with the financial clout of the other top teams.

Toyota have the money but no idea how to spend it.

They wont continue to pour money in for no return, neither will BMW.

Mclaren and Ferrari are destroying F1 unintentionally. The budgets have gotten so high it's practically impossible to lure new backers and owners to the sport. The costs now to even get on the grid are so high it's really not worth the effort in the hope you can get an 8th place.
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Im not quite sure what your saying? You cant say that the Ferrari and McLaren budgets are to big for them to be beaten. Toyota have the biggest budget by far, and im sure Honda have got a huge one too. Ferrari are a manufacturer of cars, but McLaren arent a factory team, they are 40% Mercedes and the rest McLaren and sponsors. Basically, the financial issues in F1 have all spouted from the banning of Tabaco advertising. Tabacco sponsorship provided the largest input into motorsport, especially F1 by far. In the last 10 years all teams (bar Ferrari) have managed to replace tabacco adveretising so you cant say new investers arent interested.

Ferrari and McLaren are dominating now, before it was Renault and Ferrari, Before that Mclaren and Ferrari, before that Williams, and Beneton, and other. The top team changes.
 
Skeeter said:
Im not quite sure what your saying? You cant say that the Ferrari and McLaren budgets are to big for them to be beaten. Toyota have the biggest budget by far, and im sure Honda have got a huge one too. Ferrari are a manufacturer of cars, but McLaren arent a factory team, they are 40% Mercedes and the rest McLaren and sponsors. Basically, the financial issues in F1 have all spouted from the banning of Tabaco advertising. Tabacco sponsorship provided the largest input into motorsport, especially F1 by far. In the last 10 years all teams (bar Ferrari) have managed to replace tabacco adveretising so you cant say new investers arent interested.

Ferrari and McLaren are dominating now, before it was Renault and Ferrari, Before that Mclaren and Ferrari, before that Williams, and Beneton, and other. The top team changes.
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I'm not saying it's the fault of the big teams just they have helped spiral the money up out of control. Saving money on gearboxes and engines has done nothing for the smaller teams to be able to compete or cope. All Ferrari and Mclaren have done is expand the expenditure in other areas.

New investors are not interested. Even ITV with the lewis hamilton effect were not interested in keeping F1 and preferred extra football games.

They said for years that huge companies were waiting to join F1 when the tabacco money and companies went. Well they didn't come. The Coke and McDonalds that Bernie kept bleating on about joining once the ciggie money went. They didnt come.

They are not interested in a sport that isn't competetive where historically only two teams are ever in with a shout.

It's just not feasable for a new team to put a budget together that anyone would be interested in. 10 years ago williams 35 million was not far out of reach. There is now well over a hundred million dollar difference in budget between Mclaren and Williams. Williams will never compete again until that gap is hugely eroded. Maccas budget is rumoured to be in the region of $400 million dollars and Williams $150 million.

Williams are effectively nowhere as a private team and its the private teams that need to be able to join f1 because the manufacturers that want in are already in.

There needs to be tighter control on the budgets because 400 million to be a top team is a joke.
 
dannyjo22 said:
I'm not saying it's the fault of the big teams just they have helped spiral the money up out of control. Saving money on gearboxes and engines has done nothing for the smaller teams to be able to compete or cope. All Ferrari and Mclaren have done is expand the expenditure in other areas.

New investors are not interested. Even ITV with the lewis hamilton effect were not interested in keeping F1 and preferred extra football games.

They said for years that huge companies were waiting to join F1 when the tabacco money and companies went. Well they didn't come. The Coke and McDonalds that Bernie kept bleating on about joining once the ciggie money went. They didnt come.

They are not interested in a sport that isn't competetive where historically only two teams are ever in with a shout.

It's just not feasable for a new team to put a budget together that anyone would be interested in. 10 years ago williams 35 million was not far out of reach. There is now well over a hundred million dollar difference in budget between Mclaren and Williams. Williams will never compete again until that gap is hugely eroded. Maccas budget is rumoured to be in the region of $400 million dollars and Williams $150 million.

Williams are effectively nowhere as a private team and its the private teams that need to be able to join f1 because the manufacturers that want in are already in.

There needs to be tighter control on the budgets because 400 million to be a top team is a joke.
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engines cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. As a customer, using 1 every 2 GPs is a LOT cheaper than 2 or 3 a weekend as in the past. (Skeeter 1 - Danny 0)

Vodafone, Intel, HP, RBS, Red Bull, ING, Panasonic, they are all HUGE and they came (Skeeter 2 - Danny 0)

Football is worth LOTS AND LOTS more money than F1, ITV took the financially benificial option (19-20 GPs a year vs lots more Football matches). (Skeeter 3 - Danny 0)

Are you seriously suggesting any other sport doesnt have a few teams/makers/marques that dominate at any one time? 2 out of 10 teams, 20% dominate, thats like saying the whole Premiership dominate football. (Skeeter 4 - Danny 0)

Foce India is proof the budget is available. Williams are proof a middle range budge keeps you in the game. Super Aguri lost out becuase there budget didnt get paid, not becuase they never had one (Skeeter 5 - Danny 0)

I agree, Private teams are the best for F1 as a spectacle, would be nice to see more (Skeeter 5 - Danny 1), but the fact is you need manufacturer backed teams (Mclaren are effectively a Merc backed private team), and with the outrulling of curtomer cars, the FIA killed that off (althoug i agree). There are however PLEANTY more manufacturers who could join, Porsche for example, or countless Japanese makers (Skeeter 6 - Danny 1)

You dont need money to be the top. Toyota have the most money and arent the top. You need skill, passion, drive, and luck. (Skeeter 7 - Danny 1)

However, I agree that F1 costs need to be controlled, but if your going to try to make a point, atleast use facts or relivent info.
 
All I can say is goodbye Sato :D that guy is an absolute liability and should never have been given a spot on any team.
 
Skeeter said:
engines cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. As a customer, using 1 every 2 GPs is a LOT cheaper than 2 or 3 a weekend as in the past. (Skeeter 1 - Danny 0)

Vodafone, Intel, HP, RBS, Red Bull, ING, Panasonic, they are all HUGE and they came (Skeeter 2 - Danny 0)

Football is worth LOTS AND LOTS more money than F1, ITV took the financially benificial option (19-20 GPs a year vs lots more Football matches). (Skeeter 3 - Danny 0)

Are you seriously suggesting any other sport doesnt have a few teams/makers/marques that dominate at any one time? 2 out of 10 teams, 20% dominate, thats like saying the whole Premiership dominate football. (Skeeter 4 - Danny 0)

Foce India is proof the budget is available. Williams are proof a middle range budge keeps you in the game. Super Aguri lost out becuase there budget didnt get paid, not becuase they never had one (Skeeter 5 - Danny 0)

I agree, Private teams are the best for F1 as a spectacle, would be nice to see more (Skeeter 5 - Danny 1), but the fact is you need manufacturer backed teams (Mclaren are effectively a Merc backed private team), and with the outrulling of curtomer cars, the FIA killed that off (althoug i agree). There are however PLEANTY more manufacturers who could join, Porsche for example, or countless Japanese makers (Skeeter 6 - Danny 1)

You dont need money to be the top. Toyota have the most money and arent the top. You need skill, passion, drive, and luck. (Skeeter 7 - Danny 1)

However, I agree that F1 costs need to be controlled, but if your going to try to make a point, atleast use facts or relivent info.
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You have missed the point, engines save money but they have done nothing to save the costs of F1, the budgets have still risen x2 every single year since 1997. As i said all they do is spend the money elsewhere.

The sponsors you mention where already in F1 before the cigarette pull out. Where are all the sponsors that have come in to replace Cigarette money?

Honda could not even find a major sponsor.

Red Bull where in before Ciggy money pulled out and ferrari still take huge amounts of Marlboro money. Red Bull is not a public company anyway. If Red Bull had to satisfy share holders they wouldnt be in either.

Porsche are not interested in f1, they cannot afford to waste that kind of money and prefer to show how good their cars are in racing series that are relevant to selling cars.

Whats the point of 8 or 9 teams treading water. The best driver will always be an also ran in a team with $200 million a year less in budget to macca and ferrari.

Super Aguri could well have the best designer on the grid but without the money to keep up and re-design he aint getting anyway.

Force India are already rumoured to be considering the money they have wasted, renault wont put up with not winning for long.

I hope sooner or later a few more teams go to force the big players to do something to protect the future of the sport.
 
Skeeter said:
Super Aguri lost out becuase there budget didnt get paid, not becuase they never had one
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Super Aguri lost out because they're a customer team. Once it became clear that customer cars would not be allowed it was inevitable that the number of cars on the grid would fall. The smaller teams cannot afford a full development programme and the staffing levels required to design and build your own car. Super Aguri only existed because it was relatively cheap for Honda to run a couple of old cars. If the team was capable of standing on it's own 2 feet someone would have come in to save it but the facilities and resources simply don't exist within the team.

The customer cars issue is why Prodrive never made it to the grid, it's why Super Aguri have folded and it's why Toro Rosso will be next to go.
 
daz said:
As a comparison, $400m (£200m) is basically the yearly expenditure of Chelsea/Man Utd.
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Football and F1 are not a comparison. Even the lowest teams in the EPL have chances to win 1/4 of their games realistically. No one except 2 or 3 teams will win a race this year. Lets take Everton V Arsenal the result isn't beyond doubt even though the teams are leagues apart in financial clout.

Yet a lower ranking f1 team wont get near a race win unless you goto the track with an RPG.

Football is also down the the total skill and fitness of the players, they cant spend extra on football boots that make the players run faster that other teams cannot afford.

As I say looking at the stats f1 expenditure has multiplied by 10 in 10 years.

Even football gets no where near that inflation.

I'd just like to see an F1 where the result isn't a total foregone conclusion.
 
I can't understand why it is so hard to make F1 more worth watching.

If you look at the major changes over the last 15 years or so:

1) No skirts - ground effect down force was much less affected by following another car.
2) Move from slick to grooved tires - again limit mechanical grip, more reliance on aeros
3) Allow all the winglets etc - delicate aeros => can't follow another car
4) Allow refuelling - strategy matters more than overtaking

It really does look as though it has been done on purpose !

Simple steps:
1) Ban/limit refuelling - control power/speed by limiting total fuel allowed.
2) Ban all driver aids - make the driver drive, not the car.
3) Allow turbos back (1) would prevent stupid powers. Variable boost would allow more power when you wanted it but you will run out of fuel if you use it too much.
4) Optionally limit downforce - car in wind tunnel in clean air at 50, 100mph, downforce must be less than 50%, 100% of car weight for example.

Just ideas !
 
What would you prefer? An F1 where all the cars are the same, all the budgets are capped and everything is cheap and therefore simple......

There are countless other single make formulas out there, go watch them. They have some dam site better racing. I agree F1 is too expensive for its own good, but it needs to remain the pinicle of motorsport. And please stop spouting absolute rubbish!
 
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