Supplements the debate/discussion thread

Ok, beta alanine - is typically sold as a pre work out sup as it gives muscles more strength and endurance as it helps produce carnosine. However it should be used post work out to IMO. It works synergistically with creatine it's a common stack and does, if cycled properly (i.e. at least 6 weeks, but no more than 8) can give good boosts in size and strength. When I say good, I mean good for a natural trainer. i.e. don't expect inches to appear on your arms, or 20kgs on your lifts. However it'll get you that little bit extra for sure - ALONG with a good diet plan - that is vital as you know.

So really you'd want to be taking around 10g of creatine a day, if you can't split it throughout the day just go pre and post workout 5g each time. For BA I'd go for about 2g per day, again split before and after with the creatine.
 
Wow that's a lot a stuff - am I in the minority here? Just fish oil capsules for me and whey maybe a few times a week.

Nope,I just use some whey and fish oils. And depending on how I feel some Vit C and NaRALA as they are both good antioxidants - but I use them as and when I feel the need.

About the only supp I like from that list that i'd recommend using are the Vit B complexes. Good supp (if you go for the right ones!).

Of course glutamine and whey and fish oils are a sensible addition, but the rest I think is a little waste of time, unless of course you're at a the top end of your training potential, diet etc... since I don't know what your training stats are then I can't really comment.

However you've done the same as me, tried a whole bunch of stuff to see how you got on with it. How did you measure it? Did you keep your diet identical every week every time you tried something new? It's hard work isn't it? And boring!! I found I was more or less affected, but in all honesty the biggest differences was the way I ate, when I ate, and the regimen my life followed.

However, if it works for you, then don't let me tell you otherwise! Carry on! I'ts good to see people training hard and trying to sort their diets and training out with as much help from wherever they can get it! :)
 
:D

Yeah, and I'm already 4lbs up! :o Eating everything in sight though. I was at a friend's house last weekend for a curry, and ended up finishing most of other people's too. :o

Of course it's all muscle, and no water retention ;)
 
LOL!

The prevalence of whey is incredible now. I remember years ago it was seldom something had even heard of unless you were into your bodybuilding.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, modern diets are rubbish now for protein - I just wish I had got in on the whey "boom"!
 
The problem is a lot of kids take it, as a replacement for good food, and get fat thinking it's a magic potion. It's a fantastic and some would argue (I wouldn't) necessary supplement for hard trainers - I'm not a hypocrite as I do use supps as well. My comment is just in reply to your comment about the kids being quiet about it.

I think what ticks me off are people that buy £100s of supps without really having a clue about nutrition, diet, sport and anything to do with it. Which for most people here on OcUK doesn't apply as people here are pretty clued up - it's just a general observation. :)
 
dont know why but that is making me LOL a lot :D maybe its the thought of dropping a dumbell on a clueless bicep boy while hes benching.

:D

why would a clueless bicep boy be benching, every one knows its the curlz that get the gurlz noob :p

Clearly, it's all about the gunz innit! ;)

yeah i just thought it would be hard to drop a dumbell on someones face when their standing up! lol

Trust me, where there's a will, there's a way ;)
 
I'm surprised you got that effect from tribulus tbh :/ Unless you're in your 40s in which case it is quite plausible. :) Trib needs to be high in protodioscin otherwise it isn't effective and there are so many different types of trib out there. Some reasearch seems to suggest that not only does the Tribulus need to be Bulgarian but the part of the plant is also crucial, fruit and roots are no good it needs to be from the leaf.



*** Tribulus Terrestris: Bulgarian v The Rest of the World ***
By Dean Farley of Tierra Supplements

The theory behind Tribulus Terrestris' effects is its ability to trigger the body into releasing luteinizing hormone (LH), which in turn stimulates development of the interstitial cells of the testes that secrete the hormone testosterone.

The active constituents of tribulus are steroidal saponins of two types; furostanols and spirostanols. Studies suggest the furostanol steroidal saponins are not bio-active and must be first converted to spirostanols to become so. The saponin content will vary depending upon the identity of the plant, the source of saponin within the plant (e.g. seed, fruit, and leaves) and the conditions under which the plant is grown. The method of extraction will also affect the concentration of saponins. Using a special method of harvesting and pharmaceutical preparation, Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris has a very high concentration of steroidal saponins, hence it's higher cost. The phytochemistry of Chinese and Indian Tribulus is considerably different from that of the Bulgarian, also Chinese and Indian Tribulus is made from a different part of the plant.

There are three groups of active phytochemicals in Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris:

1. Dioscin, protodioscin, diosgenin, etc. These have an effect on sexual performance and may treat various sexual disorders, sexual energy level and strength by increasing the percentage of free testosterone level for men, and affects pregnenolone, progesterone, oestrogen, etc.

2. Sterols - betasitosterols, stigma, etc, which protect the prostate from swelling and in combination with the X steroidal saponins (third group listed below), protects the prostate from cancer.

3. Proprietary steroidal saponins currently referred to as X steroidal saponins. These affect the immune system and have been demonstrated to possess anti-bacterial and anti-viral (particularly anti-herpes) effects.

Chinese and Indian Tribulus Terrestris does not have the same pharmacological and physiological functions as Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris. Theirs is used primarily as a diuretic and to treat kidney stones. At best, Indian and Chinese Tribulus Terrestris have but a trace of group 1, and contain virtually no X steroidal saponins. This could go some way to explaining the radical difference some people experience in the effects of Tribulus Terrestris from different sources, borne out by many posts on MuscleTalk with people disappointed with the results of non-Bulgarian Tribulus.

** Source of the following information: Townsend Letter for doctors and patients; Dec.2004 Kerry Bone

Quality Issues
Two studies have highlighted that most Tribulus products on the market are quite different from the Bulgarian extract (TLSE). The first study, conducted in the US, found that the level of protodioscin varied substantially with the plant part (leaf, stem or fruit) and origin (Bulgaria, India or China) of the Tribulus. Only leaf from Bulgaria was high in protodioscin. Analysis of products selected from the US market found deficiencies of protodioscin in the majority. The second study from Australia produced similar results. An Eastern European variety of Tribulus (from Slovakia) contained high levels of protodioscin in the leaf but none in the fruit. Leaf from Australia and India did not contain protodioscin. The principle of phytoequivalence dictates that, if the benefits demonstrated in a clinical trial are claimed for a herbal product, then that product must closely match the one used in the clinical trial. The Bulgarian clinical trials which have shown that Tribulus boosts libido and fertility and alleviates menopausal symptoms, all used Tribulus leaf rich in protodioscin collected from Bulgaria. Therefore only similar products might reasonably be expected to have the same effects. If a Tribulus product is made from the root or fruit of the plant, or is sourced from anywhere else other than Eastern Europe, it will probably contain low levels of protodioscin and so will be quite different from the Bulgarian standardized extract. The quality of Tribulus products is best assessed by high performance liquid chromatography as used in the two studies cited above.
 
Interesting post! My training partner and I went halves on a bottle from MP on sale. The effects are similar with both of us but i seem to feel more of an effect. We're both 20 and male. 300mg a day, 95% saponins

Don't know why you're knocking the effects then as that's precisely what you should be getting. I don't buy the whole roid rage crap either. If you're a **** off them then you'll still be one on them. Some of my friends who do dabble are fine but then it is down to the individual. Don't let the temper trick you. If you genuinely think your test levels are up then you should increase your protein intake as your protein synthesis will be up. However trib will only five you limited "boost" anyway and best to cycle it. :)
 
That list is a little out of context though and some of them have no research associated with them. The idea behind what they're trying to do is good, but it's not been done the best way IMO as there are some supps there with great research but have been omitted or downgraded. It's laudable, but incomplete. As a rough guide, it makes sense, but it should not be a bible, vitamin b complexes, reservratol and magnesium being prime examples.
 
I think clinical acne is unavoidable although diet can cause an outbreak in spots.

Indeed some people are pre-disposed, but can mitigate the effects by a decent diet and proper application of medication. However, irrespective of that, clinical acne aside, diet directly affect EVERY part of your life, body, mind, everything. Your body is an amazing machine that works in balance and like balance, and depending on how you fuel it, the fuel you use will shift the balance to a certain extent.

Look at Med diets, and those living there, good quality skin, but then they are exposed to sunshine too which helps as well.
 
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