Supplements the debate/discussion thread

When people still get ill despite taking all these "vitamins" thinking that it'll protect them instead of eating good wholesome diets. People forget that vitamins that are required are vitamin complexes which basically means a whole branch of nutrients tied to the vitamin. Look at vitamin B complexes, off the top of my head there are at least 8 elements to it alone, even then that's just scratching the surface - the way they are present in food is different to the man made versions. However, I can agree and admit that man made ones do work synergistically with the body as your body WILL metabolise and bind to the elements as expected. However the dosages often seem way too high to me. What do you reckon Jeffstar?
 
I think people with deficiencies owing to their environments, being night workers, or allergies or just shocking diets, vitamins certainly can help, but I agree I think they are an unnecessary addition to one's arsenal - buy fruits and veg, eat nice wholesome foods and you'll get just as many benefits. Then again look at the Asian world, no food allergies over there, I really think it's a western thing owing to our atrocious diets and general malnourishment of the western world in general which is why the supplement business is so successful - because the test cases were people with deficiencies and as such responded positively to the addition to their diet.

Don't get me wrong some vits can really help give you a boost, it's like overdosing on anything (coffee or sugar for example) but other than that relying on them is still a dangerous habit.
 
I appreciate that you've done your best in terms of diet - that's cool. :) It's still a LOT of whey to buy though! What you get through in a month I get through in a more than 1/3rd of a year! :D :D
 
Well said Ben.

The problem is people think that using supps will magically give them more with the same amount of effort. Nutrition is key to training, however, good training and rest is also vital.

You can boost your thermogenic reactions naturally, furthermore doing exercise developing LBM will naturally increase your thermogenic capacity. For example, I'm literally a walking hot water bottle owing to my lifestyle! A lot of "fat burning" stacks are not recommended - they're based on a naughtier version, which basically make your heart beat faster and make you more wired, i.e. more fidgety and basically moving more and as such using more calories. Why do that artificially, just do a bit more in the gym, or go for a morning walk, vary your diet, change your training.

People use supps without really knowing how they bind with different molecules in your body, how they affect you, and jump in feet first without really understanding the science behind it.

Then again maybe I'm different, even aspiring or other painkillers, I don't take those really unless I really can;t cope, and even then I've researched and learnt about how they work with my body. I don't like putting things in my body that I don't understand.

Don't get me wrong, when doing intensive training like AGVT for example, I do supplement to help me recover and give me maybe a slight overdose of some nutrients owing to the punishment my body is receiving. However I dose it myself, I've tested it on my performance - sure it's a bit contradictionary and hypocritical saying that I don't like putting things into my body without knowing what they do, but I make a well educated decision.

Diet and nutrition are key to any training - everybody is different though so you need to work out what your body responds better to, however the diet and nutrition importance doesn't change. :)

Americans love their supps because it's a huge market over there, there are so many there that are jus filled with filler and do nothing, because people will believe it. Susceptability and positive mental attitude will often make you believe that it is "working". Don't get me wrong there are many supps that work, I'm a big fan of natural herbal supps - but taken from time to time and in measured quantities/amounts. The yanks have been brainwashed into thinking they NEED these supps - you don't. Certainly in the sunny states where you get lots of sunshine, fresh fruit and veg you're living in an ideal environment for good health. Just add some fish and good carbs, some decent exercise and you're on your way to a perfect lifestyle.

The Mediterranean lifestyle to me, is still the "perfect" mixture of what is needed for your body. Good fats, fish, 8-10 portions of fruit and veg a day, lean meats, sunshine, exercise, red wine - perfect! There's a lot of evidence (some anecdotal to be fair) that the Med lifestyle is extremely good, and helps lower risks of diabetes, an heart conditons. You don't see them supping themselves up to their eyeballs ;)
 
What side effects have you read of? Creatine is a naturally occuring chemical found generally in meats and fish (not in veggies, which is why a lot of veggies need to supplement on creatine). It's not an essential amino acid but useful for giving extra capacity to muscle endurance/strength. The effects are minor though, they may give you one or two extra reps once you've loaded a decent amount.

Problem with it is the water retention and the "crash" you get after using it for a few months. i.e. you will lose initial work out strength and endurance as well as size owing to the water retention. Mostly the effect of dimished "strength" will pass within a week or so.

As for the creation of formaldehyde and other such poisonous compounds, you'd have to be taking it in ridiculous quantities for a long period of time.

I personally get very little from creatine - I do get something, but owing to my diet my creatine levels aren't too bad.

IF you're a vegetarian however, you can receive very visible benefits from creatine since their base levels are so low.
 
Excessive whey protein puts strain on your kidneys too. Excess of anything really puts strain on your body parts if they are not taken in a synergistic way for your body.

As cristi has said, everyone responds differently, my creatine stores are generally quite high and as such I get little benefit from prolonged use, but the initial water rentention is useful with high volume training initially to mitigate the sudden increase in volume. :)
 
Mansize_tissue said:
I've persevered with the pea protein and I can finally stomach it. Though I do have a teaspoon of cocoa powder with each scoop of protein, I only have a couple of scoops a day at most so it isn't too much. The taste aside, I definitely prefer it over whey protein.
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That doesn't surprise me, your body will be able to digest it better. :)
 
CEE really needs a decent dose - whenever I've used creatine I'm hitting a good 15g a day, loading up 5x a day (3g x5 split throughout the day) before and after training too.

However that's how I responded on it. Look into how creatine works, and see if your diet and training would benefit from it and test it. Do a loading phase then take it for 4-5 weeks, and come off - check how it's helped. If nothing, increase the load, or increase the times a day or the length. Or, try just doing what is recommended on the box.

Everybody is different, and whilst the supplements have the same effect on most people in terms of cellular it's hugely reliant on your metabolism, LBM, diet and training and natrual hormonal shifts/balances. I have had my test levels measured and they are on the high end of the bell curve - I'm lucky :)

Such supps only do a very very small percentage difference, they help if administered correctly but the "wow" factor won't be over night or in a few weeks. It'll take a while to really notice whether or not that 1 or 2 extra reps that the supp may or may not help you get makes a difference. :)

Experiment, safely, but read up on it from science books and medical journals not from forums where "experts" tell you one thing or another, or supplement shops which tell you to buy £100s of their product.
 
Sorry, nothing does "per se" as it's a natural phenomena, but carbs generate a higher insulin response which doesn't help GH do it's thing. GH with IGF1 help growth, and you do all your growing at night, so to ensure your body is preped for growth, other than lots of sleep, protein 30-60mins before bed is ideal, preferably slow released protein.
 
Indeed. High glycaemic index foods suppresses the release of GH owing the hormonal responses needed to deal with such foods. Now protein still causes a slight insulin trigger, but it will be at much lower levels.

This is why diet, exercise but most of all sleep is vital for growth. Typically about 1hr after falling asleep you'll be releasing high levels of GH. Monopolising that is vital if you want to take advantage of it. It's times like this where supps are hardly required, if you can learn to cycle your own hormonal releases you can pretty much get yourself into an almost constant anabolic state. Bloody hard work though! :D
 
Skull said:
Freefaller, any good reading material for this sort of thing? I like the sound of it, I'll be transferring my carbs to the morning and afternoon for sure.
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Lots! Anita Bean is quite a good author on such things.
Doug McGuff and John Little are pretty good

Then of course there are all the big names like Columbu, Joe Weider and so on that have written journals and books.



There are a lot of nutrition research papers out there and books - if you're willing to spend a bit of money just buy some books for a summer holiday and read up on it.

You soon end up learning the facts and science behind how your body works., Heck even some GCSE/Alevel books are worthy reading, it's not too advanced either and easy to follow. Then when you mix the biology knowledge with training and nutritional knowledge you're on a good path to understanding more.

I'm still learning lots - but I haven't had that much time to study at the moment. IT does take time and effort to read about it.

Books and papers are better than internet "facts" :)
 
I agree with what you disagree with (if that makes sense).

Your body doesn't absorb cholesterol, it produces it itself.

Furthermore Cholesterol is important:

It helps make the outer coating of cells.
It makes up the bile acids that work to digest food in the intestine.
It allows the body to make Vitamin D and hormones, like estrogen in women and testosterone in men

In fact, there's a good article here:

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsweek/Understanding_Cholesterol.htm


Sign up to the newsletter (I do) it's fascinating reading.
 
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