Surveillance cameras (CCTV) in a domestic situation.

Capodecina
Soldato
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I was asked by a neighbour today if I minded him putting up surveillance cameras on his property that would also cover my front door and access to it and to the yard at the back. I said that far from being bothered, I would be absolutely delighted.

However, it did set me to thinking about the regulations covering such CCTV camera systems. I had a look online and found this (https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...stic-cctv-using-cctv-systems-on-your-property) which seems to suggest that one should be very careful about intruding on the privacy of others, including those passing up and down the street or in any public area.

Knowing that people increasingly use mobile phones to record activity on public property (e.g. Stop and Search, "Auditing" Tottenham Police Station) I am curious as to what rules apply to private CCTV monitoring systems and how effectively such rules are enforced?
 
Man of Honour
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I think that in practice the rules won't matter as a majority of people no longer care about being under surveillance. Quite the opposite - the new normal is to pay the surveillance companies for spying on you. So I expect any rules to be ignored and then discarded at some point.

My neighbours did the same to me but never bothered asking me. Or even telling me. That annoys me to some extent, but not enough to do anything about it. I'm far more concerned about privacy and security than most people and even I'm not bothered enough to do anything about my neighbours spying on me and monitoring every time I enter or leave my home.
 
Caporegime
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I was asked by a neighbour today if I minded him putting up surveillance cameras on his property that would also cover my front door and access to it and to the yard at the back. I said that far from being bothered, I would be absolutely delighted.

However, it did set me to thinking about the regulations covering such CCTV camera systems. I had a look online and found this (https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...stic-cctv-using-cctv-systems-on-your-property) which seems to suggest that one should be very careful about intruding on the privacy of others, including those passing up and down the street or in any public area.

Knowing that people increasingly use mobile phones to record activity on public property (e.g. Stop and Search, "Auditing" Tottenham Police Station) I am curious as to what rules apply to private CCTV monitoring systems and how effectively such rules are enforced?

It's funny that when a house was broken into on my street the police knocked on my door asking for me to check my cameras from the day before to see if they saw anything.

Bear in mind the house that was broken into you couldn't see from my home. It was around the corner. So they wanted to see what happened in regards to the pavement and road outside which is public areas.

They wanted to know what cars had driven past which looked out of place or people with masks on. If a car had driven past repeatedly or dropped off or picked up a group of lads with masks on, etc.

So I think you are perfectly okay to record public spaces so long as it's recording an area which would be deemed arguably useful.

Camera directly pointed and zoomed into a bedroom window is a no.

However a camera pointing into the road where there happens to be bedroom windows in the background is okay.

Back gardens is a bit more dodgy IMO so long as it's covering access points and overall majority their own property with only slight coverage of elsewhere if deem fine but you couldn't have say only 50% covering your property and 50% our neighbors for instance.

Basically use common sense.

I'd highly suggest getting a nest hello doorbell. It's the best security camera there is IMO. You get a warning as soon as a person steps foot onto your property after you set up a boundary area. It will clearly capture their face and you can watch them in real time and speak with them if need be.

Whereas more conventional cameras just record and you don't get much warning until it's far too late.

Nest also do outdoor cameras but really expensive but do pay for themselves over time with their new subscription service being unlimited cameras rather than per camera.
 
Associate
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Most of the people on this forum believe filming a publically funded building from the pavement warrants a beating from the police. So 24/7 surveillance at a neighbours property? Burned at the cross immediately! Although I have a sneaky suspicion that they aren't consistent I their beliefs.
 
Soldato
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Most of the people on this forum believe filming a publically funded building from the pavement warrants a beating from the police. So 24/7 surveillance at a neighbours property? Burned at the cross immediately! Although I have a sneaky suspicion that they aren't consistent I their beliefs.

Let it goooooo, Let it goooooooooooo!
 
Caporegime
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Most of the people on this forum believe filming a publically funded building from the pavement warrants a beating from the police. So 24/7 surveillance at a neighbours property? Burned at the cross immediately! Although I have a sneaky suspicion that they aren't consistent I their beliefs.

No most believe acting like a **** *** deserves a beating.

Even more so if you are actively harassing police officers.

I mean if you came up to me on the street and shoved a camera in my face you wouldn't get a pleasant reaction unless you explained yourself and I deemed your explanation to be worthy of a friendly response.

Saying your doing an audit of my actions I'd make the camera audit your backside.

The guy in the video you posted got what he deserved. He was looking for a reaction and then surprised when he got one.
 
Associate
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I'm about to put some cameras up round my house, had a chat with the neighbours first - stated I could put them up on my soffit boards for a better overall view (and out of the reach of any potential criminals), but with the issue that they'd also see down the neighbours side path - they are ok with it, on the basis anybody who may break into their house would also be recorded. Obviously, any cameras at the back of the house will be set to see my garden only.

I'm going to put one looking over front garden too that will also likely catch the front public path/road, but as above the majority will be over my property so likely no issue.
 
Soldato
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I installed 4x Hikvision 4K/UltraHD cameras on all sides of our property a couple of years ago. The cameras feed in to a Synology DiskStation (Surveillance Station software) and record in 4k for the front, where the only realistic access to the property is, and 1080p on the other sides. I get about a month of recordings on the surveillance drive at 8Mbps average bitrate in x264+.

Our front overlooks the local primary school, which our children attend, so I sought guidance from the ICO. They said (at the time) that to record wider public spaces and even the school was no problem, as I'm a private individual and it was for a specified legal exemption (the prevention and detection of crime). However I had to pay a nominal sum (£10 iirc) to register as a data controller and display signs warning of CCTV and at least one had to have Data controller contact: (email set up for the purpose). In practice they were on my fencing and unreadable from the public road, but the legislation was satisfied.

A few times I've had the police knock enquiring after footage, and simply supplied it along with a digital receipt/certificate confirming the footage is unedited and unaltered (Surveillance Station can generate these based on its original recordings) and a text file with my details as data controller, the purposes for which the footage was supplied, to whom, and for whom it was intended to be viewed.

Last year I was told I no longer needed to renew my data controller license, as the rules had changed and I was now simply exempt. Make of that what you will.
 
Soldato
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Do you want to record any would be thieves so they can be identified or just so you can see what they did. The reason I ask is we've come across many scenes with useless footage taken of the top of peoples heads because the cameras are too high up.

Cameras that are lower (even in range of being damaged) are more likely to catch an image of someones face. Than one fixed just under roof height
Even more likely to catch someones face if they are face to face with the camera whilst trying to tamper with it
 
Soldato
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I'll get some cameras for the house I've just bought based on using an old swann system at my parents.

Even in the old system so you can tell it to record only with it detects movement and only in a certain zone if you set it properly.

I set it to not pick up the main road outside my parents house as it would fill the hard drive.
 
Soldato
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So I think you are perfectly okay to record public spaces so long as it's recording an area which would be deemed arguably useful.

Camera directly pointed and zoomed into a bedroom window is a no.

However a camera pointing into the road where there happens to be bedroom windows in the background is okay.


Basically use common sense.

When I researched for mine I was told that the top of my shot must not capture any part of my opposite neighbour's property, basically the top of the pic had to be at the bottom of his fence unless I obtained written permission from them. Likewise if the camera touched adjacent neighbour's property.

However the pavement and road were classed as public space and no expectation of privacy.

However this was around 2004.

Bold - Does that even exist anymore?
 
Caporegime
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When I researched for mine I was told that the top of my shot must not capture any part of my opposite neighbour's property, basically the top of the pic had to be at the bottom of his fence unless I obtained written permission from them. Likewise if the camera touched adjacent neighbour's property.

However the pavement and road were classed as public space and no expectation of privacy.

However this was around 2004.

Bold - Does that even exist anymore?

That would make nearly every doorbell camera illegal if true.

Because they point out directly facing the property across from your front door. Most front doors face a road. The other side of the road in majority of cases will have a neighboring property. So doorbell cameras won't be pointed down so it doesn't cover their property.

My cameras have several neighbors property on them. I supplied these to the police regarding the break in up the street and they had zero issues. They thanked me for supplying them and even came back the next day to get me to sign what seemed like 4 seperate documents. Just stating that I owned and operated the CCTV and that the date and time on the cameras was accurate and a bunch of other things.

Like I said before it's mainly a common sense approach.

For example a lot of knives are illegal to carry. Like if you were hanging about inside or outside a pub on a Friday night and had a knife on you. Chances are your getting lifted.

However let's say your out in the middle of nowhere hiking and camping. You need a knife to cut rope, open stuff, etc. It's an essential DIY tool. Chances are if you ran into the police they can see your out camping and hiking and it would be reasonable for you to be carrying a knife even though it's illegal and technically you should and could be arrested for doing so.

Obviously there will be a small minority who will set up CCTV to spy on their neighbours. This isn't the purpose or use of my system but the rules are there to protect against such cases. Which is why the majority of law abiding citizens aren't allowed to carry knives even if they have a legal purpose for doing so thanks to a minority of idiots.

Like I said before set them up to protect your property and so long as you could easily argue that point they should be okay. If you have a camera zoomed in and pointing directly at a bedroom window then yeah that's not cool.
 
Soldato
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Theres a big difference in capturing the front garden of a neighbour and pointing the camera into a window.

I'm sure there was a case a while back but I cant find it now.

You can also just set up the camera how you want and put a privacy box covering your neighbours property I think most cameras have that setting
 
Caporegime
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All my cameras are covering majority my property. Yes there is one what covers majority of my driveway and in doing so it captures the main road, pavements and neighboring properties. However there is no way I can set it up without doing so otherwise half the picture would be recording the wall it's attached to. I'd rather be recording the road than a brick wall as chances are that the road is where they will be coming from so it makes sense to record in that direction rather than a wall where no real evidence could be produced from.

It's a common sense approach nobody could look at my system and argue it's used for spying on neighbors. All my cameras are covering essential entry points to my property. With some slight overlap here and there of bordering properties.

Like I said before if you use a common sense approach and you aren't pointing it directly into a neighbor's property you will be fine. If it happens to capture some of their property on the peripheral that is fine.

Zoom into a bedroom window then yeah obviously if a crime happens and police ask to see your setup and they see that then I'm sure they will likely use the letter of the law against you.

Personally I'd take my chances and record whatever you deem is essential to capture anywhere that people who would be looking to cause you or your property harm are likley to come from or attack as an entry point. If that means you capture some of your neighbors garden or property so be it so long as like I say the majority of it is covering essential parts of your property.
 
Soldato
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That would make nearly every doorbell camera illegal if true.

Because they point out directly facing the property across from your front door. Most front doors face a road. The other side of the road in majority of cases will have a neighboring property. So doorbell cameras won't be pointed down so it doesn't cover their property.

My cameras have several neighbors property on them. I supplied these to the police regarding the break in up the street and they had zero issues. They thanked me for supplying them and even came back the next day to get me to sign what seemed like 4 seperate documents. Just stating that I owned and operated the CCTV and that the date and time on the cameras was accurate and a bunch of other things.

Like I said before it's mainly a common sense approach.

As I said, my info is old. It's also possible that the doorbell cameras just skirt being legal as they don't record 24/7 like a fixed CCTV system.
 
Man of Honour
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Most of the people on this forum believe filming a publically funded building from the pavement warrants a beating from the police. So 24/7 surveillance at a neighbours property? Burned at the cross immediately! Although I have a sneaky suspicion that they aren't consistent I their beliefs.

Are you on about that 100% utter and complete **** :)
 
Soldato
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you can film anything/anybody on public land but a person can ask for any recordings with them on and you have 30 days to supply them (if you have them). The exception is if you film someone in a situation that a reasonable person could claim has an expectation of privacy - you cant do that.
You can film anything on your own property but you can't film other peoples private property without their permission. Also you need to follow the GDPR laws if you film anything not on your property.

whether many people do that.....
 
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