Tax.... what is everyone’s problem with it?

[muon]

Until you get an AA bill.

I don't even understand your argument.

In no world is contributing to you pension (be that 3% or 10%) be classed as tax. If I pay that into my pension, it was my choice.

Nor does the annual allowance result in my pension contribution being classed as tax.

 

[Raikiri]

Until you get an AA bill. Bonus tax, on money that doesn’t really exist.

Then opt-out. Pension schemes aren't mandatory.

I'm assuming your employer contributes as well? If anything it's a tax deduction if they even come close to matching what you pay in.

 

[muon]

Until you get an AA bill. Bonus tax, on money that doesn’t really exist.

I don't think you are following the argument. This money does exist. It's your contribution.

13.5% for me in the NHS.

So you see that as tax do you?

 

[Minstadave]

I don't think you are following the argument. This money does exist. It's your contribution.

So you see that as tax do you?

I don’t see the pension contribution as tax, just giving an example of contribution figures as 3 and 4% were being bandied around.

My pension contribution doesn’t really exist as my pension is defined benefit. The money I pay or my employer contributes doesn’t effect my pension growth.

Due to the wonders of the public sector DB scheme I can be taxed on pension growth massively, beyond 100% of my annual income if things fall poorly. This is where tax becomes unfathomable to me. Paying tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds now on pension growth you won’t see for 30+ years (if you live that long) is mad.

 

[RampantMark]

I don't understand why some people don't jive with the sliding scale of taxation (in the UK).

Consider that we all have fixed overheads of living. Food. Clothing. Roof. Heating. After that there isn't much left that can't really be labelled a "luxury". Nobody actually"needs" luxuries. At least not in the same way as we all need food, clothing, roof and heating.

It doesn't take much scrutiny, analysis or brain power to work out that taxation *ought to be* based in a sliding scale. Those who earn less need the vast majority for food, clothing, roof and heating. Those who earn more, than can just cover the fixed overheads of living start to get taxed at source, and those who earn more still can easily afford a slightly higher percentage (but only taxed at higher percentage over a fixed amount).

Scrutiny.

Seems fair to me.

At least from the perspective of open, dispassionate scrutiny and analysis.

 

[Quartz]

as per title really, why aren’t people proud to pay tax and always looking for ways to avoid it.

Because tax needs major reforms. With regards to personal taxes, there are different rates for different things and different allowances for this, that and the other. It needs a government with a good majority and plenty of parliamentary time to reform it. And then there are corporate taxes. People get majorly ticked off when they see the likes of Amazon and Google making billions but paying next to nothing in taxes. Ironically, Brexit should help that considerably, as we'll be outside the EU.

 

[MissChief]

Nobody likes taxes because ultimately we are all selfish and dont want to see people freeloading. We dont want a society, we want our own little castles/countries and everyone else be damned. (but retain the rights to all the services we consume of course)

Someone else should pay!

 

[Quartz]

I think my biggest issue is council tax. I've never been in trouble with the police or had a fire etc, so I'm effectively paying about a grand per year to have my bins emptied and the vast majority of that goes to the pen-pushers.

But the Fire Brigade & police are there when you need them and they operate in the background. The police, for instance, arrest criminals after they've burgled someone else but before they burgle you. They keep the Queen's Peace. The Fire Brigades are busy fighting other people's fires and giving fire safety advice so the office building next door doesn't burn down. Trading Standards are a council operation which ensures that when you buy 10 litres of fuel you are indeed buying 10 litres of fuel and not getting short-changed. Planning departments ensure that no one can build a tower block next to you without permission. Councils do a lot of work; that you use few of their services now is irrelevant.

 

[eviled]

It's not tax though.

Well aware of that, in fact it actively reduced your effective tax rate, which was the point I was making, which makes a salary where your effective tax rate is 40% even higher!!

 

[RandomMonkeH]

Tax.... what is everyone’s problem with it?

To answer the original question. Two main issues I see:

1) The disparity of those that adhere to the system and pay tax even when they can't really afford it, and those who can absolutely afford it, but choose to dodge it using any and every loophole going.
If everybody was taxed, and the greedy weren't allowed to get away with it, everybody would feel less bitter about forking over their dues.

2) The waste. The blatant squandering and misappropriation of taxpayers money does not exactly encourage people to stump up substantial percentages of the money they have worked hard for, so it can be peed away.
It is disrespectful.

If the government took tax seriously, rather than just viewing the taxpayer as an unlimited cash cow to bail out their incompetence, then I would have zero issue with tax.
As it is, I can use the money more than they can. In fact most of the time I could set light to it and still made better use of it.

They can't, but that isn't the point.
Some people don't realise is that you are supposed to earn more over time. You cannot expect luxuries such as a new car on low wages.
Educated or not, you could be working for 18k per year full time age 21. You aren't supposed to stay on that forever!

Just to point out, that I live in a rural community, and actually a large percentage of people will be hovering around that 18k for the majority of their working life.
Jobs are scarce and low paying, there is no career progression, and they cannot afford to move to find higher paying jobs.

So while in theory you should increase your earnings with time/experience/qualifications, the reality is very different.
What we are seeing is an increasing divide between the poor and the comfortable. That is not healthy for the country or the economy. Tax is really only part of it.

 

[Malevolence]

Tax.... what is everyone’s problem with it?

Taxes increasing whilst services decrease. That's my main gripe.

 

[VincentHanna]

Taxes increasing whilst services decrease. That's my main gripe.

Like when the conservatives put VAT up to 20% and cut services?

 

[MissChief]

it also doesn't help when the Inland Revenue adversely goes after Benefit cheats compared to tax avoiders and Evaders. https://fullfact.org/economy/benefit-fraud-tax-inspectors-numbers/ Shows that over 4,000 staff were chasing benefit fraudsters with an estimated overpayment of £2 billion where as Tax avoidance and Evasion, £1.7 billion in tax revenue was lost through avoidance in 2016/17, £5.3 billion was lost through differences in legal interpretation, and another £5.3 billion was through evasion.

 

[FoxEye]

Taxes increasing whilst services decrease. That's my main gripe.

It's our job to elect people who will set and spend our taxes wisely.

Can't blame anybody else if we keep putting clowns back in office.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...-conservative-party-republicans-a9116991.html

Apparently we're giving $12 billion a year to the oil and gas companies. On a totally unrelated note, they donated £400k to the Tory party in 2017.

 

[Quartz]

Like when the conservatives put VAT up to 20%

Wasn't that forced by the EU?

 

[The_Abyss]

I don’t see the pension contribution as tax, just giving an example of contribution figures as 3 and 4% were being bandied around.

My pension contribution doesn’t really exist as my pension is defined benefit. The money I pay or my employer contributes doesn’t effect my pension growth.

Due to the wonders of the public sector DB scheme I can be taxed on pension growth massively, beyond 100% of my annual income if things fall poorly. This is where tax becomes unfathomable to me. Paying tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds now on pension growth you won’t see for 30+ years (if you live that long) is mad.

The issue with annual allowance (AA) breaches for those with variable incomes and final salary pensions is well publicised now. I think the point that you were making is that your contribution at 13.5% is much higher than the assumed 3% that the other poster used. It is, and there are good reasons for that. I won't go into how much better value the benefits you'll receive from 13.5% compared to 3% or even 30% in a defined contribution pension - they're equally well publicised.

The other poster would have chosen 3% as that was the original rate payable under auto-enrolment. Millions of new pension savers are contributing this rate, so it is not unreasonable.

 

[Malevolence]

Like when the conservatives put VAT up to 20% and cut services?

Yes.

 

[RandomMonkeH]

It's our job to elect people who will set and spend our taxes wisely.

Can't blame anybody else if we keep putting clowns back in office.

But when your only choice is clowns to the left and jokers to the right....

 

[chroniclard]

Wasn't that forced by the EU?

No, the minimum allowed in the EU is 15% they could drop it if they wanted.

 

[MissChief]

Wasn't that forced by the EU?

What? No. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36430504 says that the Tories say they can't, but they can and could if they wanted to, to 15%.

Remember this is the Party that added 5% VAT onto gas and electricity.