The Tesla Thread

[Mr Jack]

I am actually glad there is a wait until it hits Europe. NA has very much been a beta test for this car. Both in quality control, and software as well. Car should be much better by the time it hits Europe and even more so when RHD starts appearing

Is there any other car company where early production is considered "beta test" in this way?

 

[Phate]

Is there any other car company where early production is considered "beta test" in this way?

No, but its already well established that Tesla is not like other car companies.

 

[VincentHanna]

Is there any other car company where early production is considered "beta test" in this way?

No, but certainly all manufacturers improve their cars as time goes on. BMW call it a Life Cycle Impulse

If you buy a car after 3 years then chances are it'll be improved over the early models.

 

[Lashout_UK]

Yea, but they generally at least work as intended out of the box.

 

[VincentHanna]

Rather ironically the thread above this at the time of posting is this: https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/bmw-to-recall-350-000-cars.18192232/

 

[VincentHanna]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44210793

Tesla boss Elon Musk has admitted there is a braking issue in its Model 3 cars but promised a firmware update to fix it "in the next few days".

The problems were flagged up in a review of the electric car by US website Consumer Reports.

"Our testers found flaws - big flaws - such as long stopping distances in our emergency braking test and difficult-to-use controls," wrote Patrick Olsen.

Tesla had at first disputed the findings.

The reviewer said braking distances on average were 152ft (46m), adding that that "was far worse than any contemporary car we've tested".

In response, Tesla released a statement which read: "Tesla's own testing has found braking distances with an average of 133ft when conducting the 60-0 mph stops using the 18" Michelin all season tyre and as low as 126ft with all tyres currently available."

But later Mr Musk tweeted that the issue would be dealt with before the end of the week.

 

[Lashout_UK]

Rather ironically the thread above this at the time of posting is this: https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/bmw-to-recall-350-000-cars.18192232/

A recall due to a component degrading unexpectedly (or quicker than expected) is somewhat different to a car rolling off the line and not driving as it should, as that immediately puts the customer in a position where they're either a) at risk or b) not getting what they've paid for. It's even more different when all the cars produced suffer from it; most OEM recalls are instigated when just a handful, if that, of cars have experienced a problem – and it's quite rare for it to be a serious issue, or one that hits a substantial portion of the manufacturer's products.

 

[Mr Jack]

No, but certainly all manufacturers improve their cars as time goes on. BMW call it a Life Cycle Impulse

Yes, most manufacturers will do a mid-cycle face lift. Not quite the same as something being considered "beta test" is it?

 

[pioneer2000]

Unsure why Tesla attract so much complaining on this thread. Seems a lot of jealous people who aren’t getting one! Can’t wait personally.

 

[Mr Jack]

Unsure why Tesla attract so much complaining on this thread. Seems a lot of jealous people who aren’t getting one! Can’t wait personally.

Because it's switched into more of a discussion of the company than the car itself.

As I said I'd love a Tesla, especially the Model S, but I find suggestions that they're going to be a huge player in the future of car markets or deserve their absurd market capitalisation ridiculous.

 

[Phate]

Unsure why Tesla attract so much complaining on this thread. Seems a lot of jealous people who aren’t getting one! Can’t wait personally.

This thread? try the internet! Elon Musk & Tesla are one of the hottest subjects on the internet right now. Paid for articles to slate them just to generate large amounts of traffic to their own sites. Tesla has a crash, its all over the news with the question "was autopilot in use" or not being the instant question. Queue a ton of discussion surrounding it. Tesla has a fire, same reaction.

Despite many people die every single day in fatal accidents in other car brands and other car manufacturers have fires as well. Yet, they're not in the news at all.

I know I am excited for a Model 3. I know to expect that certain things may not be as I expect, as its a tech company building a car, rather than a car company building a high tech car. But I accept that.

 

[Mr Jack]

Tesla has a crash, its all over the news with the question "was autopilot in use" or not being the instant question. Queue a ton of discussion surrounding it.

Given the interest in self-driving cars, and the questions about "driving aids", and Tesla's safety claims about autopilot I don't think is either unreasonable or picking on Tesla. I also doubt they mind much; their media reach is astounding given their size. Musk must be one of the most recognised tech guys right now.

 

[Phate]

I definitely think calling it "autopilot" was a mistake. It seems a lot of people take the term literally and usually when autopilot is involved in an accident the driver was distracted and treating it as full autopilot and not a driving aid.

I would go as far to say that Musk is one of the most recognised guys in the world right now.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Given the interest in self-driving cars, and the questions about "driving aids", and Tesla's safety claims about autopilot I don't think is either unreasonable or picking on Tesla. I also doubt they mind much; their media reach is astounding given their size. Musk must be one of the most recognised tech guys right now.

No I disagree the media coverage is disproportionate. For instance why is sky news covering this?

https://news.sky.com/story/tesla-with-autopilot-crashes-into-truck-at-red-light-11370124

They don’t even know if auto pilot was active...

What isnt emphasised is the fact the driver walked away from crashing into the back of a stationary fire truck at 60mph with just a broken ankle. It shows the car is inherently safe compared to an ice car. Injuries would have been far worse in an ice. The driver later admitted to police they were using their phone at the time of the accident and they received the appropriate punishment.

https://electrek.co/2018/05/16/tesla-driver-crashed-truck-autopilo-logs-nhtsa-investigates/

Again why are the feds picking this up to investigate, it’s a complete non event.


Likewise why is the uk media covering this?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Car-crashes-wall-Florida-2-teens-killed.html
This story isn’t even worthy of of a USA national news story (its local news relevant only) and it’s only being talked about because it’s Tesla. They news coverage also directly bought in autopilot in a way that suggests it could be a factor (without directly saying it) even though it clearly couldn’t be active as the car crashed at over 60mph in a 30 zone. Auto pilot would cap at 35mph.

The reason why it is not worthy of a national let alone an international news story is because on average another 98 Americans died on that day on the roads and on average there were 500 other car fires. The car was driven a twice the speed limit into a brick wall and at least one of them was unrestrained, it was never going to end well regardless of the car involved. A fire in an ICE car is likely in a crash like that let alone other devastating injuries.

The sole reason this is constantly being picked up is because it’s Tesla.

https://electrek.co/2018/05/14/tesla-crashes-elon-musk-lashes-out-media-report/

I have to agree with Elon’s stance on this one, if every crash was reported to the extent Tesla crashes are no one would get in a car. We know why they do it though as it generates clicks for the national media (£££).

 

[Mr Jack]

They don’t even know if auto pilot was active...

And? You expect news to wait for all the details in every story? Come on.

What isnt emphasised is the fact the driver walked away from crashing into the back of a stationary fire truck at 60mph with just a broken ankle. It shows the car is inherently safe compared to an ice car. Injuries would have been far worse in an ice.

The Tesla S scores well for safety but it's not like there aren't ICE cars that do considerably better. In fact, every executive class car tested since the Model S has beaten it for driver, passenger, and pedestrian safety.

https://electrek.co/2018/05/16/tesla-driver-crashed-truck-autopilo-logs-nhtsa-investigates/

Again why are the feds picking this up to investigate, it’s a complete non event.

Because of the use of autopilot and sensible concern about the impact of these semi-autonomous aids on safety. Personally, I think that cars with semi-autonomous aids are likely to prove more dangerous than cars without them, a system that encourages the driver to not pay attention whilst not fully allowing them to do so is a risky situation. See the Google fatality where the person supposed to watching and ready to intervene was on their phone. Give people nothing to do and they will lose focus.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

And? You expect news to wait for all the details in every story? Come on.



The Tesla S scores well for safety but it's not like there aren't ICE cars that do considerably better. In fact, every executive class car tested since the Model S has beaten it for driver, passenger, and pedestrian safety.



Because of the use of autopilot and sensible concern about the impact of these semi-autonomous aids on safety. Personally, I think that cars with semi-autonomous aids are likely to prove more dangerous than cars without them, a system that encourages the driver to not pay attention whilst not fully allowing them to do so is a risky situation. See the Google fatality where the person supposed to watching and ready to intervene was on their phone. Give people nothing to do and they will lose focus.

Isn't the point that there was nothing significant to report when it made international news... all the story was that a driver drove into the back of a truck at 60mph. That's it, nothing else... the only reason it went international was because it was a Tesla. In fact none of them asked the question as to why the Automatic Emergency Breaking didn't kick in, that's a standard feature on all Tesla's with auto pilot hardware, its just poor journalism designed to generate advertising revenue.

The feds are also not investigating auto pilot and are just gathering data as it was a 'special crash', again a complete non-story just designed to get clicks to get more of those advertising dollars....

 

[Amp34]

With great PR comes greater scrutiny.

The more a product/company promotes itself the greater the “fall” when it doesn’t reach the pinnacle that it put itself on. That’s relevant for any company in any industry (especially so in the tech world).

The media and public’s response to Tesla and the Model 3 is largely down to the fact that Tesla promoted the idea of an “affordable” car and a different type of company. Unfortunately so far all we really have is a car that is nowhere near the price initially quoted, a company having a nightmare building even a few thousand cars a week (let alone fulfilling their preorders) and struggling with build quality and QC. The same with Autopilot, they made too much of a big deal about it when it initially came out, and are still offering a product that may never actually be viable (the upgrade feature to fully autonomous).

While I agree the media do seem to be a little over the top with the coverage, it’s in part because people are so interested in it because of the way Tesla sold Autopilot.

On the flip side you have the Cult of Musk, which is starting to rival Trumps. You have Musk who has a tendency to use twitter on the spur of the moment (sometimes for good, sometimes just to rant about someone or something), as well as a group of people that appear to idolize him and Tesla. It’s now got to the point where anyone with a non positive view on Tesla and it’s future is called out as a “shorter”.

So in some ways Tesla are a victim of their own success. If they hadn’t created such an aura about them then they wouldn’t have the same amount of publicity. Dodgy brakes on a new car wouldn’t usually be front page news, but because of the aura it is. On the flip side an independent company reporting dodgy brakes on any other vehicle wouldn’t result in hundreds/thousands of comments complaining that they are some kind of shill for established players and/or aren’t independent...

In other news Musk has “announced” (read made up on the spot apparently) the Model Y will be unveiled on 15th March 2019 (or a few months before or after).

That’s the vehicle I’m most interested in from Tesla, but how will it compare to the other dozen small to mid size SUVs predicted to be available in 2020/21. That’s the big question for Tesla IMO. There’s not a lot of competition in th Model 3 space so intermittent build quality and manufacturing delays isn’t likely to lose them that many customers. For the Model Y they need to have it down, because most people won’t wait a year, or put up with reports of poor build quality. They’ll go to another brand selling a similar EV.

 

[Lashout_UK]

Isn't the point that there was nothing significant to report when it made international news... all the story was that a driver drove into the back of a truck at 60mph.

No. The point was that it yet again highlighted how 'Autopilot' is inadequately equipped in terms of making sure that the driver is actually paying attention to the road ahead (and again the fact that isn't capable enough point blank and often instils a false sense of confidence in many, resulting in improper use).

Also highlighted is the fact that the Model S features automatic emergency braking these days but it made absolutely zero effort to do anything, although I'd be surprised if it would function at that speed – I've never really looked at the particulars.

 

[VincentHanna]

If drivers are stupid enough to think they can stick autopilot on and not pay attention then it's their own fault.

 

[Mr Jack]

If drivers are stupid enough to think they can stick autopilot on and not pay attention then it's their own fault.

No, it's not. It's fundamentally awful design.