*** The 2011 Gym Rats Thread ***

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Are you following any sort of routine? Looks a bit of a mess to me. You've got loads of movements hitting the same groups, with strange rep/set structures. Also even talking about "maxxing" out preacher curls is totally daft, especially when you have managed to forget something like deadlifts. If you can curl 10kg more than you can knock out on the lat pulldown then it seems like you've got a major muscle imbalance there anyway. If I were you, I'd forget everything else until I've destroyed myself deadlifting.

Doing what you're doing isn't going to hurt you, but certainly doesn't seem like the most efficient way to reach your goals.
 
Clum said:
Are you following any sort of routine? Looks a bit of a mess to me. You've got loads of movements hitting the same groups, with strange rep/set structures. Also even talking about "maxxing" out preacher curls is totally daft, especially when you have managed to forget something like deadlifts. If you can curl 10kg more than you can knock out on the lat pulldown then it seems like you've got a major muscle imbalance there anyway. If I were you, I'd forget everything else until I've destroyed myself deadlifting.

Doing what you're doing isn't going to hurt you, but certainly doesn't seem like the most efficient way to reach your goals.
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Cheers for the helpful response;

Normally Tuesdays are Biceps & Chest; Thursdays are Triceps & Back, and Saturdays are Legs & Shoulders.

It's a bit off balance at the moment, because my TP will do something, and then I'll feel like I want to try it as well, so I need to be a lot more stricter at what I do.

I have an idea of what Exercises do which groups, but theres no structure to it :(

Saturday Plan is for Squats, Calf Raise, Leg Curl, Leg Extension, Ab Work, a little CV (I have DOMs in my Leg from running yesterday).
 
If you're just new to it all and wanting to try a bit of everything to start out for a few weeks then that's fine. When you decide that you want to start taking it seriously though and making some real progress, the best bet by a long shot is to pick one of the tried and tested routines. Have a look at one of the 'Stronglift' programs or if you're quite weak on the big compound lifts, try Rippetoes 'Starting Strength'. other split routines like the one in the sticky will also be a good choice. There's little point in hitting isolation movements at two day intervals like you seem to have been doing though. Make the big lifts like deads/squat/press your main focus, leaving the rest, like preacher curls an afterthought, if at all a this stage.

If you really want to progress quickly (who doesn't?) then have a good read around, ask questions to get a solid routine picked. Keep dabbling around in a bit of this or that, will see you several months down the road getting disheartened because you're not improving, and probably giving up all together. Everyone is a bit clueless when first starting out, but with the internet and programs like Stronglifts ect so easily available, there's no excuses for getting it wrong for too long!
 
Gamefreak501 said:
It's a bit off balance at the moment, because my TP will do something, and then I'll feel like I want to try it as well, so I need to be a lot more stricter at what I do.
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You and your TP should be on the same routine, otherwise he's not really a TP; just a guy at the gym lifting weights at the same time as you :p

Gamefreak501 said:
I have an idea of what Exercises do which groups, but theres no structure to it :(
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General rule of thumb for me is start with your big compounds, then isolation work.
So for a back/tricep day:
Back
Deadlifts (always first, massive compound exercise. couple of warm ups, then 3x8 typically)
Widegrip pull ups (3x8)
Lat Pull Down (3x10)
One Arm Row (3x10)

Triceps
Dips (3x8)
Seated Dumbell Extensions (3x8)
Tricep kick backs (3x8, optional as I don't always do these. 4 exercises is a lot!)
Super set of cable overhead pull overs and cable push downs (3x10 of each)

Although if you have a TP you can always do skull crushers - I don't fancy doing these without a spotter!
 
Clum said:
If you're just new to it all and wanting to try a bit of everything to start out for a few weeks then that's fine. When you decide that you want to start taking it seriously though and making some real progress, the best bet by a long shot is to pick one of the tried and tested routines. Have a look at one of the 'Stronglift' programs or if you're quite weak on the big compound lifts, try Rippetoes 'Starting Strength'. other split routines like the one in the sticky will also be a good choice. There's little point in hitting isolation movements at two day intervals like you seem to have been doing though. Make the big lifts like deads/squat/press your main focus, leaving the rest, like preacher curls an afterthought, if at all a this stage.

If you really want to progress quickly (who doesn't?) then have a good read around, ask questions to get a solid routine picked. Keep dabbling around in this or that will see you several months down the road getting disheartened because you're not improving, and probably giving up all together. Everyone is a bit clueless when first starting out, but with the internet and programs like Stronglifts ect so easily available, there's no excuses for getting it wrong for too long!
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The worst part is, I've been at it a 13 months :o

Have made a little progress in that I don't look like a weed now. But my TP has also got long-term Leg problems as a result of his fallen arches and Compartmental Syndrome - and has weakness on parts of both his Legs as well.

He's going to be doing Lower body work exclusively (with a little upper body work) for the next month and I'll be doing my Routine (with vast improvements of course!) for both Upper and Lower Body.

My diet is almost there, I have been regimentally eating Cottage Cheese at Night and an extra Tin of Fish in the Morning, with everything else I eat - but I need to not be so scared of Carbs and Fat and need to add a bit more of these to my diet.
 
Game, personally I would pair up triceps with chest and biceps with back. This way after say a back session you only need to 2-3 exercises on biceps to stimulate them, compared to on a chest day where they will be a lot more fresh.

Also I always start each workout with the big lifts as they require the most effort. Back - deadlifts, chest - bench press, legs - squat and shoulders - shoulder press.

You don't really need to focus too much on biceps and triceps, they develop as you start lifting more anyway.
 
Gamefreak501 said:
But my TP has also got long-term Leg problems as a result of his fallen arches and Compartmental Syndrome - and has weakness on parts of both his Legs as well.
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flat feet is not an excuse for not working the legs. I'll have a read up on compartment syndrome, not sure what that is!
 
Game, list your diet if you haven't already as people will past some comment on it :)

LiE, I can understand doing chest/tri and back/bi if you're a big strapper like yourself, but I think I'd personally struggle a bit with it altho I've been gym'ing for about 9/10 months now and made some impressive gains. I think mentally it helps me being able to do bodyweight+ dips on a back day than having to do assisted dips after hammering my chest, if that makes sense?

I mean technically it's 6 and 2x3, and I can see how doing them as you say will take less time; but I'd rather lift more weight and take longer, speaking as a relative noob :)
 
MoNkeE said:
You and your TP should be on the same routine, otherwise he's not really a TP; just a guy at the gym lifting weights at the same time as you :p



General rule of thumb for me is start with your big compounds, then isolation work.
So for a back/tricep day:
Back
Deadlifts (always first, massive compound exercise. couple of warm ups, then 3x8 typically)
Widegrip pull ups (3x8)
Lat Pull Down (3x10)
One Arm Row (3x10)

Triceps
Dips (3x8)
Seated Dumbell Extensions (3x8)
Tricep kick backs (3x8, optional as I don't always do these. 4 exercises is a lot!)
Super set of cable overhead pull overs and cable push downs (3x10 of each)

Although if you have a TP you can always do skull crushers - I don't fancy doing these without a spotter!
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Looks very good thank you :)

I might move my Triceps/Back day to Tuesday, so I can do that after Leg Day on Saturday. As Saturday is my Leg Day, does this work:

Legs

Squats: 2x10 (at very low weight), 3x8 (at higher weight)
Leg Curl: 3x8
Leg Extension: 3x8

Shoulders

Shrugs: 3x8
Delt Raise: 3x8
Shoulder Press: 3x8

Regarding Diet, I have listed it before, but it's probably got lost in the abyss!

This is what it normally consists of (ready to get it ripped apart!):

Breakfast

Fruit & Fibre or Porridge served with semi-skimmed milk
1x Scrambled Egg on Toast, with a tin of Mackeral Fillets or Tuna
Fruit Juice

Lunch

Sandwiches - normally with Salmon or Ham & Cheese inside.
Muller Yogurt
Banana

Sometimes I'll treat myself to a meaty meal in the Work Canteen, with veg and Chips or Potatoes (Mum makes my Sandwiches for Me :o).

Dinner

Varies significantly, but I usually have a large portion of veg, something meat or
fish related served with rice or pasta and chips or potatoes.

Bedtime

300g of Cottage Cheese (value/Smart Price) or 300g of Cottage Cheese with Pineapples.

I don't have strictly have a 'post workout' or 'pre workout' meal or snack. I'll normally have between 1-2 cups of Tea a Day with semi-skimmed milk and Teaspoon of Sugar (only if it's Chai). If I have a normal Tea, I only have semi-skimmed milk in it.

If I get hungry whilst I'm at work, I have a handful of Apricots & Dates with a Bowl of Porridge (served in semi-skimmed milk).
 
Yay, one more physio session today.
They said I might be able to start training again next week if it all goes really well today.

Although by training, they mean Body Weight exercises, not weights yet, cept for maybe an empty Olympic bar.
 
Morba said:
Jebus! That does sound rather nasty doesnt it!
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Hehe, I think My TPs Compartment Syndrome Condition is quite minor. He's seen a physio and has been given Leg exercises specifically for the weaker points of his legs and the Compartmental Syndrome doesn't seem to be as major a problem as his Leg Weakness (which the Physio believes is to do with Fallen Arches).

Whenever my TP and myself have gone out and done Photography for example or looked at Old Cars (favourite past times!) His Legs have always been problematic and tire a lot sooner than Mine do.
 
Don't think there's an adjective strong enough for how bad that sounds! Poor guy.


Gamer, that would be a much better routine, but just make sure you stick to it 100%. I still think you'd benefit more from a strength routine like 5x5 though so maybe have a look into that before dismissing it. It's so much better to get a good base strength down before adding in a complex routine imo. Your decision to make.

Diet looks like the right sort of food, but you just need more of it. That looks like it will be around 2500Kcal tops, depending on portion sizes ect. You'll need to work out your BMR + maintenance, but I'd say you'll be looking to eat 3000+ per day to make decent gains. Don't be scared to eat big...that goes for carbs too. It's not going to make you fat if you're exercising, but will just be fuelling your muscles.
 
MoNkeE said:
Game, list your diet if you haven't already as people will past some comment on it :)

LiE, I can understand doing chest/tri and back/bi if you're a big strapper like yourself, but I think I'd personally struggle a bit with it altho I've been gym'ing for about 9/10 months now and made some impressive gains. I think mentally it helps me being able to do bodyweight+ dips on a back day than having to do assisted dips after hammering my chest, if that makes sense?

I mean technically it's 6 and 2x3, and I can see how doing them as you say will take less time; but I'd rather lift more weight and take longer, speaking as a relative noob :)
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It's not really about taking less time, still takes me 1hr - 1hr 15mins. For me it's about being efficient - if I've worked my triceps hard during a chest workout, a little bit more they are completely trained. I used to do chest/biceps and shoulder/triceps and the effort required for triceps and biceps was a lot more, and not really any better.

You should give it ago, see how you find it. My biggest reservation was that I wouldn't be able to lift as much on triceps or biceps which is true, but then they have been involved in the workout from the minute I start training, not 30-45mins in.
 
I'll try and give my two penneth :)

Gamefreak501 said:
Looks very good thank you :)

Legs
Squats: 2x10 (at very low weight), 3x8 (at higher weight) Fine
Follow it up with some leg press tho. I normally start at 80kg @15 reps, then increase 40kg @ 12reps, increase 40kg @ 8 reps, increase 20kg @ 6 reps, then work back down again through the same weights and reps. That will work your legs!
Leg Curl: 3x8
Leg Extension: 3x8

Legs are massive muscle groups, so train them hard hard hard :)

Shoulders

Again, start with your compounds. Shoulder Press first!
Shoulder Press: 3x8
Superset of Arnold Press and Upright Rows: 3x8
Superset of Front Raises and Bent over rear Delt Raise: 3x8
Shrugs: 3x8
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That's my recommendation for legs and shoulders. You'll be working all angles of your delts, and hammering your traps with shrugs and rows :)

Gamefreak501 said:
I wouldn't say ripped apart, but my first impression is that you like your carbs :) Are you bulking or leaning? I'd cut out some of the carbs you have and up the protein personally. Ditch the fruit juice as it's just sugar!

Breakfast

Porridge served with skimmed milk
2x Scrambled Egg with a half tin of Mackeral Fillets or Tuna
NO Added Sugar squash

Lunch

Sandwiches - normally with Salmon or Ham & Cheese inside.
I'd personally say you should get pitta breads and ram them full of meat, rather than a sarnie with a thin slava of meat!
Muller Yogurt
Banana
Again, if you're having more carbs here (yogurt & banana = carbs, and SUGAR carbs at that) I'd go with a bowl of porridge instead!

Sometimes I'll treat myself to a meaty meal in the Work Canteen, with veg and Chips or Potatoes (Mum makes my Sandwiches for Me :o).

Dinner

Varies significantly, but I usually have a large portion of veg, something meat or
fish related served with rice or pasta and chips or potatoes.
Keep the rice and paste wholemeal and that's not so bad. Chips are a bit naughty tho!
Bedtime

300g of Cottage Cheese (value/Smart Price) or 300g of Cottage Cheese with Pineapples.

I don't have strictly have a 'post workout' or 'pre workout' meal or snack. I'll normally have between 1-2 cups of Tea a Day with semi-skimmed milk and Teaspoon of Sugar (only if it's Chai). If I have a normal Tea, I only have semi-skimmed milk in it.

Get some whey and start having protein shakes Post workout, then only have 100g of cottage cheese instead

If I get hungry whilst I'm at work, I have a handful of Apricots & Dates with a Bowl of Porridge (served in semi-skimmed milk).
Start using skimmed milk for everything!!! And snack of nuts rather than fruit :)
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Clum said:
Don't think there's an adjective strong enough for how bad that sounds! Poor guy.


Gamer, that would be a much better routine, but just make sure you stick to it 100%. I still think you'd benefit more from a strength routine like 5x5 though so maybe have a look into that before dismissing it. It's so much better to get a good base strength down before adding in a complex routine imo. Your decision to make.

Diet looks like the right sort of food, but you just need more of it. That looks like it will be around 2500Kcal tops, depending on portion sizes ect. You'll need to work out your BMR + maintenance, but I'd say you'll be looking to eat 3000+ per day to make decent gains. Don't be scared to eat big...that goes for carbs too. It's not going to make you fat if you're exercising, but will just be fuelling your muscles.
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Yeah, it's not a nice condition, at least He's being sorted at last though after a long time enduring it.

Regarding the Routine, perhaps I could do 5x5 Routine for a few weeks, and look at my progress and go to a 3x8? As I understand it's always good to vary things up a bit, so I could changes things around a bit.

Perhaps I could do with adding some slices of Bread to my Breakfast for extra Carbs, and adding some kind of Pre-workout and Post-workout meals in there for the extra nutrition.

I currently weigh 78kg, so I'll check again Saturday.
 
Clum said:
Diet looks like the right sort of food, but you just need more of it. That looks like it will be around 2500Kcal tops, depending on portion sizes ect. You'll need to work out your BMR + maintenance, but I'd say you'll be looking to eat 3000+ per day to make decent gains. Don't be scared to eat big...that goes for carbs too. It's not going to make you fat if you're exercising, but will just be fuelling your muscles.
Click to expand...

I agree not to be scared of carbs, but I'd always take slow releasing carbs from porridge rather than sugary ones from yogurt or fruit.

LiE said:
You should give it ago, see how you find it. My biggest reservation was that I wouldn't be able to lift as much on triceps or biceps which is true, but then they have been involved in the workout from the minute I start training, not 30-45mins in.
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TO be honest mate, I might give it a go when I come back from Ireland. Unfortunately I'm going there in my second week of my 5s for HST, so I'm going to have to abandon HST when I go and treat that as my deload period. Might start a 6 week stint of a classic 3 day split with chest/tri and back/bi :)
 
Gamefreak501 said:
Perhaps I could do with adding some slices of Bread to my Breakfast for extra Carbs, and adding some kind of Pre-workout and Post-workout meals in there for the extra nutrition.
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I could be wrong here, but I've always been under the impression that bread isn't very good for you. It's carby and fatty. And it's the wrong sort of both.

Food Doctor pittas are ace; 150cals each, wholemeal, 7.2g of protein thanks to added seeds and cereal, and can be stuff with a LOT of meat. Two of them stuff with some roast beef must be seeing me to about 500 calories as part of my lunch, and it's all great nutritional food.
 
MoNkeE said:
I agree not to be scared of carbs, but I'd always take slow releasing carbs from porridge rather than sugary ones from yogurt or fruit.
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There's nothing wrong with wholewheat bread, yoghurt, or fruit as long as you don't go too nuts, especially if trying to bulk. Just don't eat a loaf per day or 30 bananas. Sure porridge is better, but not everyone can carry a bowl of porridge around with them all day! Do what works for you. The only thing I'd stay away from permanently are concentrated or refined sugars such as dried fruit and obviously things like sweets/cake/chocolate (easier said than done at times.....mmmm chocolate cake!). PWO being the exception.

The protein from the seeds and cereals in those pitas, although protein, lacks the amino profiles of meat so isn't really all that wonderful. They're probably marginally better than bread, but it's not a big deal by any means.


Gamefreak501 said:
Regarding the Routine, perhaps I could do 5x5 Routine for a few weeks, and look at my progress and go to a 3x8? .
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You will really need to stick to something for more than a few weeks either way. Sure mix things a little every once in a while to keep the body guessing, but the core of any routine is to do it for long enough, as well as consistently increasing the weights as much as possible, for your body to adapt to it so that it builds some strength. If you've really got your heart set on a 3x8 split then go for it as long as you're doing it for the right reasons and have done the appropriate research....not just because it's what you've always done.
 
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