ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ ||| The 2023/2024 Gym Rats Thread ||| ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ

[opethdisciple]

That's the problem with big lifts like squats and deadlifts. They carry an inherit amount of risk. Especially as the weights get heavy.

Anything that loads the spine is risky.

Unpopular opinion but the average gym rat would be better of switching squats for the leg press.

Most people will never load up more than around 100kg. In other words they will stop making progress.

Whilst the leg press is much more safe and the average gym bro will see much more consistent development using the leg press.

Lyle McDonald wrote a good article on this.

 

[tom_e]

That's the problem with big lifts like squats and deadlifts. They carry an inherit amount of risk. Especially as the weights get heavy.

Anything that loads the spine is risky.

Unpopular opinion but the average gym rat would be better of switching squats for the leg press.

Most people will not ever load up more than around 100kg. In other words they will stop making progress.

Whilst the leg press is much more safe and the average gym bro will see much more consistent development using the leg press.

Definitely agree to a point.

If you're going simply for the look and to get some resistance training in for the general health benefits, then a more machine based routine will work and as you say with less risk of things going sideways.

If you need the functional strength then you can't beat the big 3/4 free weight movements when it comes to resistance training.

Personally I've not squatted/deadlifted or barbell benched/OHP in 3, maybe 4 years simply because I kept picking up niggles which completely demotivated me.

Switching to machines and dumbbells has still kept my muscle mass and means I tend not to love my love for training every few months when I pick up another niggle I suppose the caveat to that is that my base strength/mass was built with a lot of free weight movements so it's easier to maintain with less stimulus.

 

[sigma]

That's the problem with big lifts like squats and deadlifts. They carry an inherit amount of risk. Especially as the weights get heavy.

Anything that loads the spine is risky.

Unpopular opinion but the average gym rat would be better of switching squats for the leg press.

Most people will never load up more than around 100kg. In other words they will stop making progress.

Whilst the leg press is much more safe and the average gym bro will see much more consistent development using the leg press.

Lyle McDonald wrote a good article on this.

Nobody really needs to to squat 100kg or more but squatting is good for the body/bio mechanics. As is yoga, I guess. Depends what your desires are. For functional fitness big weights aren't needed.

 

[sigma]

Definitely agree to a point.

If you're going simply for the look and to get some resistance training in for the general health benefits, then a more machine based routine will work and as you say with less risk of things going sideways.

If you need the functional strength then you can't beat the big 3/4 free weight movements when it comes to resistance training.

Personally I've not squatted/deadlifted or barbell benched/OHP in 3, maybe 4 years simply because I kept picking up niggles which completely demotivated me.

Switching to machines and dumbbells has still kept my muscle mass and means I tend not to love my love for training every few months when I pick up another niggle I suppose the caveat to that is that my base strength/mass was built with a lot of free weight movements so it's easier to maintain with less stimulus.

Good point about BB v DB, recently did something with BB OHP so might switch to DB.

Could do DB squats!

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

The basic joint stack with out getting too esoteric is:

1. A high quality multivitamin that provides Vitamin D3 at 2000 IU.
2. A high quality fish oil. (Not the same as cod liver oil avoid this)
3. Glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM supplement.
4. Turmeric. (In reality you want a high quality Curcumin supplement as that's the active ingredient in Turmeric)

I would suggest that everyone interested in joint health take the above as that forms the basics for joint support.

I got this information from here.

---

The more esoteric options are:

Collagen (1,3 and type 2)
Boswellia AKBA
Bromelain
Ligaplex 2 (manganese supplement)
Rosehip
Devils Claw

and loads and loads more...

My current stack is the basic joint stack plus 20g of multi collagen and Boswellia AKBA.

Obviously make sure your diet is rich in calcium as well.

Following my previous query a few weeks ago about glucosamine, I've been taking glucosamine MSM for the past 2 weeks or so now. I'm taking omega 3 and multivitamins too (which I've done for a while now)

The knee joint does already feel a bit better, it was only minor anyway but I haven't felt anything while squatting- I only do a little bit if I'm right now in a fully ATG position (and this is more comfortable than before).

 

[opethdisciple]

Following my previous query a few weeks ago about glucosamine, I've been taking glucosamine MSM for the past 2 weeks or so now. I'm taking omega 3 and multivitamins too (which I've done for a while now)

The knee joint does already feel a bit better, it was only minor anyway but I haven't felt anything while squatting- I only do a little bit if I'm right now in a fully ATG position (and this is more comfortable than before).

I forgot something very important.

Eat you're greens. Cruciferous vegetables particularly.

 

[ShortWarning]

Has anyone experienced hair loss after taking creatine?

I'm unsure if there is a link beyond people who are already susceptible to hair loss but there are definitely a lot of people online who have experienced it after taking creatine.

I've been taking it for years and haven't experienced any hair loss (at 40 years old).

 

[mrthingyx]

Letting his form slip.

Yep.

 

[mrthingyx]

That's the problem with big lifts like squats and deadlifts. They carry an inherit amount of risk. Especially as the weights get heavy.

Anything that loads the spine is risky.

Unpopular opinion but the average gym rat would be better of switching squats for the leg press.

Most people will never load up more than around 100kg. In other words they will stop making progress.

Whilst the leg press is much more safe and the average gym bro will see much more consistent development using the leg press.

Lyle McDonald wrote a good article on this.

Mmm. Yes and no. If size is the thing then leg press and hack squat are fine

If training for functional or "sports-based" strength then squats and deadlifts are actually really important, as leg press will not help you in a scrum, tackling, or anything where your whole body needs to apply high levels of force or power (even sprinting).

But yes, most people will not do many (or any) of those things, so it is somewhat irrelevant.

 

[Syla5]

That's the problem with big lifts like squats and deadlifts. They carry an inherit amount of risk. Especially as the weights get heavy.

Anything that loads the spine is risky.

Unpopular opinion but the average gym rat would be better of switching squats for the leg press.

Most people will never load up more than around 100kg. In other words they will stop making progress.

Whilst the leg press is much more safe and the average gym bro will see much more consistent development using the leg press.

Lyle McDonald wrote a good article on this.

go and leg press for 3 months then come back and squat, you will most certainly feel the difference in muscles hit.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

That's the problem with big lifts like squats and deadlifts. They carry an inherit amount of risk. Especially as the weights get heavy.

Anything that loads the spine is risky.

Unpopular opinion but the average gym rat would be better of switching squats for the leg press.

Most people will never load up more than around 100kg. In other words they will stop making progress.

Whilst the leg press is much more safe and the average gym bro will see much more consistent development using the leg press.

Lyle McDonald wrote a good article on this.

I’ve stopped deadlifts now. Squats still worry me a bit, but they’re just so good for mass. I think low bar is a bit safer, but any of the big movements carry a risk. Heck, even the leg press nearly injured me a long time ago when I got a bit wrong and nearly locked out. Plus, I don’t have a leg press

 

[tom_nieto]

I miss squatting and DL in the gym. The amount of muscles stimulated is crazy. What I don’t miss is the possibility of aggravating my back. Decided about 2 years ago that I’d not go back to it after spending a good 2 weeks having spasms. Even had to start swimming to sort it out

 

[opethdisciple]

go and leg press for 3 months then come back and squat, you will most certainly feel the difference in muscles hit.

For me its the other way round.

Back is the limiting factor in squats and this will be the case for most people.

Jump on the leg press and feel the machine ripping you’re quads apart in a good way.

Read the article I posted.

"And for some people, usually those with mechanics that make squatting a problem, the leg press may actually be a superior choice because it takes limiting muscle groups (low-back is the common issue) out of the equation. In a related vein, it is often the upper body that fails during squatting (especially higher repetition sets). If the goal is to train the legs, it makes little sense to me to let an ancillary muscle group limit that goal."

 

[mrthingyx]

For me its the other way round.

Back is the limiting factor in squats and this will be the case for most people.

Jump on the leg press and feel the machine ripping you’re quads apart in a good way.

Read the article I posted.

"And for some people, usually those with mechanics that make squatting a problem, the leg press may actually be a superior choice because it takes limiting muscle groups (low-back is the common issue) out of the equation. In a related vein, it is often the upper body that fails during squatting (especially higher repetition sets). If the goal is to train the legs, it makes little sense to me to let an ancillary muscle group limit that goal."

I guess the distinction is between "get strong/big as a whole" and "get strong/big legs.

Lifting pretty much anything in real life requires the use of one's back, so  not working the back while doing legs is somewhat limited in pracfical terms.

That doesn't mean it is useless: biceps can be trained in isolation, but that doesn't mean you'll be able to get all the shopping out the car in one go.

 

[Syla5]

For me its the other way round.

Back is the limiting factor in squats and this will be the case for most people.

Jump on the leg press and feel the machine ripping you’re quads apart in a good way.

Read the article I posted.

"And for some people, usually those with mechanics that make squatting a problem, the leg press may actually be a superior choice because it takes limiting muscle groups (low-back is the common issue) out of the equation. In a related vein, it is often the upper body that fails during squatting (especially higher repetition sets). If the goal is to train the legs, it makes little sense to me to let an ancillary muscle group limit that goal."

All those little muscles that dont get hit on the leg press that are much more functional and do get hit squatting even at lower weights will be better for the average gym rat then just pure leg pressing. I know i can squat more then the average gym rat but im way below my limits and definitely getting a more well rounded training stimulus from the squats then the leg press. Both exercises have their place but a squat is definitely a better exercise in terms of overall benefit and impact.

 

[opethdisciple]

All those little muscles that dont get hit on the leg press that are much more functional and do get hit squatting even at lower weights will be better for the average gym rat then just pure leg pressing. I know i can squat more then the average gym rat but im way below my limits and definitely getting a more well rounded training stimulus from the squats then the leg press. Both exercises have their place but a squat is definitely a better exercise in terms of overall benefit and impact.

The words of someone that has a VAST amount of experience in the BB world:

While many take it as an article of faith that all trainees must squat, the reality is far different. Only a handful of athletes truly must squat and that’s because the movement is part of their competition. But for everyone else, squats are an optional movement. And factually, some simply are not built to squat well. And if their goal is simply getting bigger legs, in many cases it may be better for them to avoid squatting and choose a movement such as the leg press instead.

A properly done leg press exposes the legs to a similar range of motion as your typical parallel squat. Certainly squats “feel” harder but does this mean it’s automatically a superior movement for growing the legs? At least some of that feel is the technical involvement, balance, and the increased use of stabilizer muscles. But this has nothing to do with the legs per se.

Because when the goal is building big legs, there are many ways that the leg press might actually be a superior movement. So at the risk of offending most of the training world, let’s look at the issue.

---

At the end of the day people can do what ever they like and what ever suits them. But it is without a doubt that the vast majority would be better off served by the leg press than the squat.

To say otherwise is to put your head in the sand.

Any way it was not my aim to start an argument. It's always been a very inflammatory subject the leg press vs the squat. It's just came about because last week I saw someone in the gym who had been squatting for a while, making no progress and he failed he's squat. I just felt sorry for him and thought he would be the type of person that should just move to the leg press rather than keep banging he's head against the wall.

Then people in previous posts saying they twinged their back during squats and DL and I was like well... I'm not surprised.

 

[tom_e]

The words of someone that have a VAST amount of experience in the BB world:

While many take it as an article of faith that all trainees must squat, the reality is far different. Only a handful of athletes truly must squat and that’s because the movement is part of their competition. But for everyone else, squats are an optional movement. And factually, some simply are not built to squat well. And if their goal is simply getting bigger legs, in many cases it may be better for them to avoid squatting and choose a movement such as the leg press instead.

A properly done leg press exposes the legs to a similar range of motion as your typical parallel squat. Certainly squats “feel” harder but does this mean it’s automatically a superior movement for growing the legs? At least some of that feel is the technical involvement, balance, and the increased use of stabilizer muscles. But this has nothing to do with the legs per se.

Because when the goal is building big legs, there are many ways that the leg press might actually be a superior movement. So at the risk of offending most of the training world, let’s look at the issue.

No ones disagreeing with that but big well developed legs <> functional strength in the real world which is what @Syla5 and @mrthingyx are getting at.

BBers absolutely do not need to squat for their chosen "sport".

 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

I changed to front squat rather than back as it's less strain on my lower back.
I ride enduro at weekends and can spend a lot of time on the pegs in a squat position, sometimes for several miles per lap over a 5 hour event, legs like jelly by the time I've crossed the finish line
I was finding back squats would work my lower back too much, fronts seem to be just right and I've seen a notable improvement in my endurance over the last twelve months.

 

[Sheff]

I do goblet squats and hack squats as I've never been very confident squatting with a barbell, but I absolutely love deadlifts - barring the very slight injury last year my back has never felt stronger since starting deadlifts and cable flexion rows.

 

[sigma]

How many people are actual bodybuilders? Not many, I bet.

Also, aren't the problems most people face due to form and mobility rather than the exercise? You can still easily hurt yourself on the leg press.