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The Biden Presidency

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by chrismscotland, 8 Nov 2020.

  1. Energize

    Caporegime

    Joined: 12 Mar 2004

    Posts: 29,320

    Location: England

    Constitution applies to everyone as far as I'm concerned, there is nothing that morally justifies this behaviour.

    Soldiers sign up to defend the constitution, you can't then just throw it in their face when they're sacrificing their life for it.

    Biden is no better than Wilson or Trump if he allows this to happen under his watch, my expectations were low to start with but he's to managed exceed them, astonishing.
     
  2. Tefal

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: 30 Jun 2007

    Posts: 68,372

    Location: Wales

    Wasn't too long ago we were hanging soldiers because they obeyed orders.


    Which is it?
     
  3. Apex

    Capodecina

    Joined: 12 Feb 2006

    Posts: 13,627

    Location: Surrey

    Which event are you referring to here as I can't recall this?

    Who is we?
     
  4. Tefal

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: 30 Jun 2007

    Posts: 68,372

    Location: Wales

    The uk, the US, the French, allies in general.

    It's kinda famous that soldiers shouldn't obey all orders
     
  5. StriderX

    Caporegime

    Joined: 18 Mar 2008

    Posts: 28,352

    Well I don't know what he said specifically, but the military's courts-martial manual has a few articles that could apply to his situation,

    Article 88—Contempt toward officials
    Article 89—Disrespect toward a superior commissioned officer
    Article 90—Assaulting or willfully disobeying superior commissioned officer
    Article 92—Failure to obey order or regulation
    Article 107—False official statements
    Article 132—Frauds against the United States
    Article 133—Conduct unbecoming an officer and gentleman
    Article 134—General article

    If I were Biden though, I would see some value in pardoning him.
     
  6. Tefal

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: 30 Jun 2007

    Posts: 68,372

    Location: Wales


    That's what we hanged those German folks for wasn't it?

    Wait **** no we hanged them for not doing that


    Thats what they should have done!

    Or else you know we'd kill them
     
  7. Murphy

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 16 Sep 2018

    Posts: 7,637

    I think it may have been for more than simply Assaulting or wilfully disobeying superior commissioned officer, perhaps something to do with, oh IDK, genocide.
     
  8. Tefal

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: 30 Jun 2007

    Posts: 68,372

    Location: Wales

    I know right, imagine if they had just said truthful words opposed to it.
     
  9. Murphy

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 16 Sep 2018

    Posts: 7,637

    Nope, you've lost me. What do "truthful words" have to do with hanging people who take an active role in genocide.
     
  10. Tefal

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: 30 Jun 2007

    Posts: 68,372

    Location: Wales

    Well you're claiming that people speaking the truth are criminals same as people who just followed orders

    Up to you to make the differential here man

    Or actually your claiming people who refused genocide are the same as people who spoke the truth and so killed by the other side are the same.




    Which is it man follow or don't follow orders?
     
  11. Tefal

    Capo Crimine

    Joined: 30 Jun 2007

    Posts: 68,372

    Location: Wales

    Does this help


    "If you follow this order you will be punished, but if you don't follow this order you will be punished"

    Help you
     
  12. Freakbro

    Capodecina

    Joined: 29 Jul 2010

    Posts: 20,016

    Location: Lincs

    You can find him describing himself as a Libertarian on his social media. And tbf, at the start of part 1 of that video he openly admits that while he would usually be objective when making a video like this, in Wilson's case his personal hatred of him meant that he was just going to be judgemental, which then I refer to the Libertarian status to put that into perspective.

    We've talked about this before but while similar, I do see a discernable difference between a classical liberal and a Libertarian and I'd say conscription is one point where they can have daylight between them. I appreciate for a Libertarian it's probably unconscionable but while not desired can be accepted by liberals, as was in the UK in WW1. Wasn't the war on drugs something that started with Nixon?

    Anyway, I don't particularly have a personal view on rankings as my knowledge of historical Presidents is very limited it just struck me that the people you held up as all disagreeing with general consensus are libertarians and that gets my spidey senses tinkling!
     
  13. Murphy

    Sgarrista

    Joined: 16 Sep 2018

    Posts: 7,637

    No i didn't, where did i even come close to saying "that people speaking the truth are criminals same as people who just followed orders"? I said "I think it may have been for more than simply Assaulting or wilfully disobeying superior commissioned officer, perhaps something to do with, oh IDK, genocide.", there's no mention of speaking, there's no mention of truth, and there's no mention of criminals.
    Well it certainly makes more sense than your last post, man!

    It shouldn't come as a great surprise to you, man, that if a superior commissioned officer orders someone under their command to comit what they believe to be a war crime, man, then a choice has to be made, man. It's a no win situation, man! Should i risk being punished for disobeying a direct order, man, or should i take part in what i suspect is a war crime and risk being punished for that, man!
     
  14. mburn_83

    Hitman

    Joined: 1 Jun 2004

    Posts: 528

    Location: Chryston, Glasgow

    Another shambles for the Biden presidency - imprison a loyal soldier who raises legitima

    Except they don’t apply those standards when it comes to those on their side.

    It is a disgrace they imprisoned him for speaking - while literal war criminals are running the show.
     
  15. Colonel_Klinck

    Soldato

    Joined: 3 Oct 2007

    Posts: 6,489

    Location: London, UK

    You guys are reaching here. The Executive is supposed to stay out of military justice matters and leave it to them. Biden didn't imprison this guy, his DOJ didn't, the military did for disobeying orders. If it was a lawful order, he is obliged to obey it. If you don't like that then simply leave the military. If soldiers get to choose which orders they obey and which they don't then you are screwed. Everyone including the military was rightly outraged when Trump pardoned and gave clemency to personnel convicted of terrible crimes but now you want Biden to step in and interfere with military justice? If his constitutional rights have been infringed then he has a case he can take before the courts.
     
  16. Energize

    Caporegime

    Joined: 12 Mar 2004

    Posts: 29,320

    Location: England

    The cogs of the military-industrial complex are certainly being well oiled under this administration. The executive should be trying to ensure the constitutional rights of all Americans are being protected, checks and balances and all that.

    This along with the chaos that created the conditions for a suicide bombing show how the service members are being treated like cannon fodder.

    Reminds me of this speech.



    This ruling is just causing the Afghanistan disaster to continue to follow Biden.
     
    Last edited: 30 Sep 2021
  17. Energize

    Caporegime

    Joined: 12 Mar 2004

    Posts: 29,320

    Location: England

    Yeah the war on drugs was largely started by Nixon, what I was saying was that these positions I hold are moderate liberal positions to take so I'm not politically extreme by any measure, just liberty conscious when ranking presidents. I believe in the non-aggression principle but I'm not trying to get rid of drivers licences.
     
  18. do_ron_ron

    Capodecina

    Joined: 23 Oct 2002

    Posts: 10,825

    Last edited: 30 Sep 2021
  19. efish

    Mobster

    Joined: 11 Jan 2014

    Posts: 2,646

    He is in pre-trail confinement awaiting charging and the basic accusation is he disobeyed a direct order (no talking on social media). While the military tends to be a bit tougher generally court-wise, the same rule ' not-guilty until proven innocent' applies.

    A superior officer making an accusation i.e. 'he disobeyed a direct order, will result in this type of action but it does not mean the officer is guilty of any offense, just how the system works.

    Bit early in the day to jump to conclusions.

    These controversies happen under all administrations. General anxiety that the military should have no role in civilian politics, can lead to unfair decisions or political murky ones like the example below from an administration keen to play down the issues of Covid 19.



    source

    In this case a letter of concern sent to the Navy top brass, leaked to the press at the same time.

    edit. Its also not unusual for whistle blowers to be branded, traitors who should be executed if the accusations damage right- wing political interests. Part and parcel of American political rhetoric and often nakedly political, in its rush to accusation.
     
    Last edited: 30 Sep 2021
  20. Flake87

    Wise Guy

    Joined: 27 Jul 2015

    Posts: 1,250

    Breaking my own rules replying on here, but here goes.

    What Lt Colonel Stuart Scheller did was NOT to criticise his senior officers, but to ask that they be held to account for the debacle in Afghanistan, just as any other officer would and should be.
    When Biden made the decision not to hold them to account he posted his second request. There certainly should be an inquirey which holds these most senior Officers to account given the scale of the mess they made of the withdrawal.

    "If soldiers get to choose which orders they obey and which they don't then you are screwed." Yet that is exactly what General Milley stands accused of, and on several counts as well. It is grossly hypocritical for a man who many believe may be guilty of treason to not be held to account when another senior Officer is facing a Court Martial for asking for him to be held to account.

    Which then brings me to the in the main widely misinterpreted evidence Miley and his number 2 gave to the Senate, when the treacherous pair use subterfuge to attempt to drop the blame on Biden for making a decision against their advice - and don't get me wrong Biden deserves no defence for what has happened, but these two are a pair of snakes.

    The evidence they gave was about their personal opinion at the time which many have confused with being the same as the advice they gave to Biden - but it almost certainly was not.

    The two generals refuse to disclose the advice to Biden claiming it was priveleged, and unfair to disclose it, but then went on to give what their opinion was making it appear that was the advice they gave. No one will be able to prove whether this is true of course.

    Seeing as their opinons and Bidens testimony are in direct contradiction both cannot be true, and given the appalling accusations & the history against these two officers their evidence can in no way be regarded as reliable. Biden would have done himself a deal of good by sacking the pair of them.

    As for the worst president, according to Thomas Sowell that would be Barak Obama a man for whom the media covered up so much of the damage he did to America. The evidence of all of this would need an entire book to compile it's so copious.