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The Boris Johnson Premiership (24/07/2019 - ????)

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by chrismscotland, Jul 24, 2019.

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  1. robgmun

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 30, 2006

    Posts: 15,261

    Location: London

    You have to be careful as the new Labour strategy seems to be getting momentum activists to insert themselves into places to make awkward confrontations to Boris. Happened twice after he won the leadership so they've learnt their lesson
     
  2. Uther

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 16, 2005

    Posts: 9,830

    You mean like all those nasty doctors and nurses at Addenbrookes they tried to keep him away from today? Are they momentum activists too?
     
  3. Roar87

    Soldato

    Joined: May 10, 2012

    Posts: 5,606

    Location: Leeds

    There is no majority support for privatisation of the NHS from the general public, parliament, or within the Conservative party. Can you try to be a little more honest in your posts Screwy Stockhausen

    So because there would be nothing stopping him, you think that's been his plan all along and is what he intends to do. Okay. People in here are basically deranged.
     
  4. RedvGreen

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 2, 2009

    Posts: 3,877

    Location: Midlands

    Don't be so naive. If the Tories wished to continue privatisation of the NHS you simply continue as you - keep staffing low, make costs exceed funds (expensive US meds, for instance), sell off NHS buildings to private companies to lease to the NHS, etc. Then people ultimately get so frustrated with illness, death and injury going untreated due to a terrible system that they will go along with anything.

    The Tories won't do a referendum on the NHS, it'll just happen piecemeal until one day you'll sit up and go "Wait a second, I'm paying for private healthcare on-top of my ever increasing salary deductions...", coupled with infirm, unwell or elderly relatives who basically get fleeced out of all of their house/savings/pensions to cover the extreme costs of their carehome/EOL care.
     
  5. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 43,071

    Well that would spoil all the hyperbole etc... we're going to sell off the NHS to the Americans apparently... Also the US seems to be the go to comparison when private healthcare is mentioned.

    There are already private aspects to the NHS - we had the private finance initiatives under New Labour, various NHS trusts operate private facilities which help generate money to support the trust, some NHS trusts also make use of private facilities themselves.

    The silly thing is that in the current set up NHS they're essentially subsidising private hospitals to some extent. - providing facilities for them, staff etc..

    If more trusts operated their own private wings etc.. they could reinvest the revenue themselves - for example I've used private facilities at a London NHS Hospital and also at a big private hospital with plenty of facilities and an NHS hospital next door - I guess in London it doesn't matter too much but in smaller towns, cities etc.. a private hospital could well be some small facility with not much in the way of medical help if things go really wrong for you etc... **** that, I'd stick with the closest big NHS teaching hospital over any small private set up. Some of those trusts are probably missing a trick by not having a PPU of their own - their consultants can do the same paid private work, but the trust gets the profits for the facilities instead of spire group or HCA etc.. and the patients are treated in facilities attached to a proper NHS hospital not some **** little hospital with no ITU if something goes wrong etc..
     
  6. Freakbro

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 29, 2010

    Posts: 15,595

    Location: Lincs

    It's best not to comment on things you don't understand so you don't make yourself look an idiot
     
  7. Murphy

    Mobster

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 2,613

    And you know that's always going to be the case how exactly? Because IIRC you consider forecasts to be wholly unreliable so it would be impossible for you, would it not, to say that that will always be the case.
     
  8. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 21,793

    There was no majority support to reduce police staff, yet...
     
  9. jpaul

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 8,461

    the eye opener for me, was the C4 programme about usa drug companies wanting to get into uk (price controlled) market and impose higher prices to supposedly recover their 'just' R&D costs, I thought that was the point of trumps comment ? before any privatisation aspirations. (thy said this would cost nhs some 40B per year, was it ?)
    if the eu agreement relies on reciprocation of drug imports at controlled prices, we can's satisfy trump too, so the USA would not take take UK whisky etc. at low tarifs.
    Liam fox was just on r4 today expressing ignorance on this
     
  10. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 21,793

    So it's an even more pointless deal than we thought, that's humourous, can't even get the US on board now.
     
  11. satchef1

    Mobster

    Joined: Apr 17, 2009

    Posts: 4,337

    Are you still peddling that nonsense?

    A 2017 report by UCL concluded that if the death rate continued to decline at the same rate as last decade, 120,000 fewer deaths would have occurred. The study also forecast that this figure could hit 200,000 by the end of the decade if the trent continued. However, the study specifically stated that it did not find evidence that these deaths were preventable. It suggested a number of possible contributing factors, including cuts to health an social care.

    The report came under fire for this claim, as it didn't really have sufficient evidence to make anything more than observational link between falling real-terms health spending and the falling rate of decline of deaths. Leading academics in the field at other universities suggested other contributing factors, including a change in patient cohorts and a rise in deaths caused by new diseases (e.g. MRSA).

    At most, there's a suggestion that austerity may have been a contributing factor in up to 120,000 deaths by 2017. Alternatively, it's also possible, within the scope of the report, that austerity had little effect. The claim that 200,000 people died to austerity simply isn't supported by evidence.

    But I guess "austerity may have contributed to excess deaths" doesn't sound as dramatic as "THE TORIES ARE MURDERERS! Austerity killed 200,000 people!"...
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
  12. UTmaniac

    Soldato

    Joined: Nov 9, 2005

    Posts: 5,004

    Location: Here

    That could be Boris' "feasible" excuse to ditch his deal and go No Deal, if turkeys vote him back into no. 10 with a majority government.
     
  13. Jono8

    Caporegime

    Joined: May 20, 2007

    Posts: 29,077

    Location: Surrey

    Wasnt there uproar from leavers when Obama "interfered" and said we would be back of the queue fo a trade deal?

    Where is the uproar now?

    That is the deal we have struck with the EU and it would appear that it puts us....at the back of the queue....or maybe not even in the queue at all?
     
  14. Quartz

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Apr 1, 2014

    Posts: 8,927

    Location: Aberdeen

    NHS funding has increased in real terms throught the past decade. The NHS budget has increased from under £120B to over £130B.

    [​IMG]

    Fullfact.org article here.

    [​IMG]

    Now, the NHS is under pressure because people want it to do more and more:

    So please stop spewing rubbish about the Tories being anti-NHS.
     
  15. Terminal_Boy

    Soldato

    Joined: Apr 13, 2013

    Posts: 7,127

    Location: La France

    The NHS will absorb any amount of money thrown at it due to its’ enormous inefficiencies.
     
  16. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 21,793

    And yet they defunded everything else, to the detriment of the NHS as they pick up the pieces at extended cost because the treatment isn't viable in the cases of mental health provisions or having to deal with increased violence, most of this funding increase is actually from cuts trusts are forced to make, how the cuts come down is likely why the service is so **** right now.

    This is is the problem with your assertion, and is exactly how the Tories operate, what they give with one hand, they take many times more with the other and then they hope it gets bad enough that the can cast aspersions against the NHS for privatisation to keep those cuts hidden.

    The problem of locum doctors at many times the salary of stationary ones is why the budget is "real terms" increasing, they're forced to spend more to get the same result because the Tory's want to destroy it gradually and methodically.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
  17. doodah

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 20,753

    Location: London

    I think the Health and Social Care Act 2012, the uptick in services provided by private companies and Jeremy Hunt's so called negotiations with junior doctors suggest they aren't exactly pro-NHS. I don't think secret negotiations with US pharma companies bodes well either. "We won't reorganise the NHS from top down" - remember that. "We aren't selling the NHS to US pharma" - wonder which way that's going to go....

    They want to break it, strip it and give it to their rich friends.
     
  18. jpaul

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 8,461

    didn't understand why those graphs don't confirm that tory and coalition(con+lib) underfunded nhs versus blair/brown.

    The issue is obtaining same outcomes as our european friends, like france, recent accolades for uk cancer outcomes, but your chance of surviving is still better in france.
     
  19. inogen

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 19, 2009

    Posts: 3,711

    Funny then, that every doctor I've spoken to for at least 5 years, about that, which is a fair number as I have several close friends who are doctors or consultants, who have friends that I've met who are doctors or consultants. They all say that the NHS IS being privatised and unless it's stopped it will be completely unrecognisable from the free at point of use service we have now, within about a decade.
     
  20. Quartz

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Apr 1, 2014

    Posts: 8,927

    Location: Aberdeen

    Then I suggest you go to an optician. Just because the real rate of increase in NHS funding isn't as great as before doesn't mean that it's not increasing.

    Perhaps you should check your facts before posting. Austerity was and remains a lie. Government income has increased year-on-year for the past decade.

    [​IMG]

    and still runs a deficit (£9.2B in Sep 2019). Income has increased dramatically since 2010 yet expenditure still exceeds it.

    I'm sorry but I can't find a time graph for government expenditure. Google is just offering pie charts.
     
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