Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Mr Badger, May 8, 2019.
Easy, you point out that it's dishonest scaremongering.
In this example that is exactly what Osborne did, mentioning it has echos of 1930's literature. But... it gets lost in the fog when things like this happen, just taken from the link posted with that image:
even Corbyn was his usual washy non-committal in derision of the poster
Then how can you dispute the "dishonest scaremongering" from an outsider when insider politicians (Gove and leader of the opposition) basically say that he has a point.
No wonder the public were confused, no wonder leave won and more importantly this was just one singular event during the entire campaign, there are many other.
Anyone remember everyone berating Cameron by manipulating his speech into essentially meaning WW3 will happen if you vote for brexit, when he was simply stating a fact that the existence of the EU has prevented any wars of such a scale since.
It was simply a campaign of who could shout loudest, and when facts and figures, experts and economists are boring and hard to understand, posters such as the one from Farage hit far harder than any explanation.
The mistake there is thinking the people taken in by that sort of poster is taking the time to absorb a balanced/varied consumption of the news/opinions, they're captive unfortunately, likely unwilling in school to absorb information correctly, so don't feel the need to absorb it any different in adulthood in an independent manner.
A large proportion of this country, or the world, are just parroting **** their entire life because they've never needed to respond before, it was easy enough to just follow what your parents/newspaper said was and that was "your" opinion as well.
Instead of offering any actual commentary, it's just whatever they feel is easiest to beat someone else with, in the case of Brexit, there's no end to the Orwellian bile flowing from people's mouths - "Brexit means Brexit", "Will of the people", "Just get on with it"... contemptible dialogue with zero respect for it's constitutional integrity. Before this, arguably it was "The Previous Labour Government" or "Coalition of Chaos", slightly more coherent, but utterly pitiful now with what's occurred in the years since those even mattered, powerless.
These sorts of facile, childish and emotionally charged nonsensical soundbites are the preserve of those with a lack of original thought, totally unaware that it undoubtedly will come back to bite them when the rhetoric turns into projection and they're forced to defend themselves... but they can't as they've not had or never had the ability to debate the points they copy-paste verbally day in-day out.
They then just get angry and run away (you're talking down to them for defending your point or asking them to explain theirs with something other than one line soundbites), or if they're the violent sort, they attempt to make you assault them so they can be the victim.
This is ultimately why i don't care about these violent threats, they're baseless, they're expecting someone else to do it.
Now to be sure i'm not calling these people stupid (because there's certainly plenty regardless of position), i'm calling them out for not trying to be better than soundbites.
You show that they are wrong too.
@BowdonUK @robfosters @thenewoc and any other BXP supporters...
So the BXP is being assisted by some shadowy bot-using backer. That much seems undeniable. If it's not Russians and Americans looking to profit from deminishing the UK, then who?
And whoever it is, why are you so willing to support the bigot-enabling BXP in the circumstances?
And remain supporting organisations aren't marketing their alternative, some of which probably have the backing of Soros?
Deminish? Merkel said outside of the EU we could join China and America as major competition. I believe when they said the Germans will use the EU to shackle us, After all they have always been salty that Britain being smaller was always a bigger player. Now with Britain shackled in the EU giving her money to Romania the Germans run the show. Of course they will want to make it scary to leave!
Whataboutery - check
Ignore point or question - check
Mention Soros - check
Round and round we go.
I'm interested to know why you think I support the Brexit Party? I didn't vote for them in the Euro elections. I'm not a supporter of Farage. I've posted many posts saying how I now would support remain, and then just discovered that the UK could have controlled EU immigration.
The only favourable points I would give BP is that at least we know what they want. I would give the same favourable points to the Lib Dems for the same reason.
There is a big question mark over both the Conservatives and Labour when it comes to Brexit.
I find it kind of funny that some people try to put me in a box. Stereotyping and generalisations don't work. I will type my opinion and if I'm wrong I'll admit it and change it.
Politics isn't a football game. You don't need to be following your team while they get relegation from division after division before you'll admit they play crap football.
Those that lost the referendum not accepting the result - check
How's No Deal is the only Brexit and it's what everyone voted for in the referendum working out for you?
No Deal or a Clean Break is better than a bad deal
Well, Boris' deal is a pretty bad deal, so I guess you aren't supporting that either then?
It was always going to be bad thats the plan i think, Refuse to do anything but a bad deal so no deal looks likely.
So what if they say fine no deal it is, You have to blame the EU if that happens they are notoriously dirty pool players. Look at the Irish vote to join the EU they only respect votes that go in thier favour. Revote revote revote OK WE WON STOP VOTING!
The IRISH government wanted to join, they managed to get some terms changed and the people voted again. It wasn't the EU forcing the Irish to join, they wanted to.
Its quite pathetic using the Irish revote as an example of the EU because its literally 100% the opposite if you actually look at what happened.
Well they did vote four times even if it was the Irish am i paranoid if i say it was probably the EU pushing the Irish goverment to make the people revote? The people voted no three times was it?
They probably said to them join us and we will back you up against the UK like they are doing now, It seems like Ireland has been really.pushing her chest out recently when it knows they have Macron and Merkel egging them on.
That sounds just CT nutjob stuff now
How could the EU apply pressure to the Irish government to make them revote.
Of course Ireland is in a strong position they have the EU backing them up, just as they always have done with members.
Pressure no but promises and bribes of xx when a member. The pressure comes from the Irish Goverment through revotes.
No, she said we'd be a competitor on the doorstep. This is not the same thing. Bury is on the doorstep of Manchester, but Bury FC has never been major competition for Manchester United. And to extend the analogy, Bury FC collapsed.
Isn't that how negotiations are supposed to work?
You start with an offer, it gets declined so you renegotiate a different offer with the objections in mind, it gets declined again, you keep modifying your offer until it's either accepted or you don't want to concede any more so end the negotiations.
Sounds pretty standard to me.
You mean Ireland has more power now while being able to leverage the strength of the whole club they are part of, rather than if they were on their own? Who would have thought that is what happens in international negotiations...
Separate names with a comma.