Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Mr Badger, May 8, 2019.
Any source for any of this, or are you just making up possible scenarios to try to confirm a bias?
How was Corbyn putting forward dishonest scaremongering? The only thing he might have had a point about was the lack of funding to those communities. Not that migrants were the problem but the government was to blame. Not migrants. What else could he say?
LOL at you parroting Farage's "clean break Brexit". This propoganda gets deseminated like a human centipede of unquestioning throughput!
After your "clean break Brexit" "resolution" of the first part of Brexit, for how many years do you envisage similarly bitter negotiation of the 2nd phase - the replacement trade agreement - lasting?
So much for "clean break", huh?
Still, like "take back control" "UK Parliament sovereignty" "£350m for the NHS"... Its a simple term, and that's the important bit. Simple to understand is essential, for it to be regurgitated like you do - even if it's utter bull****.
I'm shocked at how weak Brexiteers tell us they are.
I thought out nation had more resilient citizens.
I've never met anyone who could be "pressured" to vote a different way just by being asked to vote again (even if we accept the misguided false premise of your response) the way you are telling us so many Brexiteers will.
What's made our compatriots so weak-willed? It seems like if we knew this we might be closer to knowing how they were so vulnerable to getting duped the first time round.
And Germany among other EU countries are worried we'd have a more competitive edge if we're not tied into an EU treaty, so it's not just leavers that think that way but it's now coming to light that EU countries also worry we could actually do rather well for ourselves. If only people believed in our country enough to turn a corner to an independent direction... It's still a clean break brexit if it doesn't involve agreeing to anything until also agreeing to a trade deal, which is how it started out being until May agreed to the staged approach.
Any evidence of EU countries worrying we might do well?
one such example...
Oh looksie, just regurgitating Farage's words without just... you know using your own.
The EU will look at us like it does the US and China if we start going doing a path of least resistance, and we wont be getting a deal with the US (Congress block) or the EU (Vetoed) in that case.
Cant see anything that implies what you suggested.
Its true, the expectations are we are getting further away from playing as nice partners. We would have no choice but to go a bit rogue on the international stage if we fail to get close integration since we will be too small to be a real player, but with too much to lose if we don't do something.
Its difficult to see if the singapore/lux type model will work on a country this size, but we could be about to find out.
Its no different to the we would become a low tax country just off the EU stuff again, its something they can cope with. It would certainly screw us over on a decent trade deal with them.
and here's another...
also doesn't say anything about "EU countries also worry we could actually do rather well for ourselves"
A trade deal with them doesn't bear as much weight if through a Singapore style model we make trade with others outside the EU which is what they're waking up to the possibility of. Every pound of trade that we would have got from the EU is potentially replaceable with someone else outside the EU...
They wouldn't be worried about us being a competitor if we weren't going to do rather well since it undermines the fog they'd like to portray to the rest of them to keep them from leaving to.
Seems like clutching at straws/wishful thinking at best.
Lol! You think becoming a vassal state of the giant China or USA will be "freedom" compared to getting a say/vote/veto in the EU block of 27 other countries? Of course we will be diminished, because the country is being sold up the river into true slavery.
I can assure you nobody here thinks in those terms. Lots of big German companies have interests in the UK / joint projects etc so they think long term - the UK is a partner to them, as the UK has been in the EU.
The overwhealming feeling is disappointment and bilwiderment of the UK leaving. There is no concern over competition.
Look at all the polls carried out Europe wide. Support for the EU is quite good. It's not perfect, lots of people want some changes, including Germany. I travel throughout the EU extensively, and everyone I have met in business and personally laughs and says that Brexit is an example to us all of a what not to do.
Don't think a Singapore style economy makes the UK a competitor. UK is in the process of loosing a massive amount of business and financial clout to Paris and Frankfurt. UK isn't Singapore, it doesn't have the same economy, workforce etc. And most of all, the majority of voters don't want it.
This idea that you can replace every pound of trade with the EU with other countries worldwide is completely crazy. I don't even know where to start to debunk that one.
Trade for the UK is not a zero sum game.
If we choose to set out a position that damages our nearest trade it doesn't suddenly mean we will benefit elsewhere, we need to setup to be able to trade that way.
For example ditching some of our food standards would cut us off from the EU, it wouldn't necessarily mean we could trade elsewhere, that may require a different change.
The biggest problem is a high proportion of our "trade" is not physical goods, by losing the EU passporting we have a significant hole to fill already. Add in ditching some more and we again have a bigger hole to fill.
There is a lot of regionality in goods (such as tastes, electrical voltage and connections etc). Its also far cheaper and easier to trade closer to home, time dfferences, languages, transport times, costs etc.
There is a reason most countries do most trade (relatively) with near neighbors.
Hmm, lets look at Singapores trade volume shall we?
Oh looksie, 70-80% of trade with Asian neighbours, how peculiar.
Thats not a good thing and completely against why most people voted to leave for gods sake. Thats a big business/rich mans brexit.
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