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The Brexit Party

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Mr Badger, May 8, 2019.

  1. Colonel_Klinck

    Hitman

    Joined: Oct 3, 2007

    Posts: 596

    Location: London, UK

    Yeah exactly my thoughts as well.
     
  2. thenewoc

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

    Posts: 4,323

    Location: West Sussex, England

    Then quote my responses rather than your revisionist version of my words, thank you.
     
  3. DarkHorizon472

    Mobster

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 2,581

    As you continually refuse to answer questions so you don’t have any responses to quote, that is why I suggested to give more detailed answers to the questions people ask you. That way they understand what you mean.

    For example can you explain the economic benefits of the no deal wto brexit you strongly support ?

    I don’t understand what they are and was hoping as a strong , vocal supporter of a no deal wto brexit you could help.
     
  4. thenewoc

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

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    Location: West Sussex, England

    But The_Abyss claims to have found my previous answers! So how could I be lying about having already providing them?
     
  5. DarkHorizon472

    Mobster

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 2,581

    In that case the answer is you are a strong , vocal supporter of a no deal wto brexit but cannot explain what the economic benefits are.
     
  6. The_Abyss

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 15, 2007

    Posts: 11,084

    Location: Ipswich / Bodham

    Of course. I'll just sample some of the more recent posts. That's a courtesy you don't appear to have afforded the remainder of the forum - providing direct responses to direct questions.

    So, do you agree that if fewer than 50% of the electorate support the Brexit Party and UKIP then there's no majority mandate to leave the EU without a deal? Your previous posts above suggest that as a majority voted for parties supporting Brexit in the past general election then that's a mandate to leave on any terms.
     
  7. thenewoc

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

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    Location: West Sussex, England

    You're surely dodging the question if The_Abyss is so sure he knows what I've said because he's found my posts them you should be able to as well.
     
  8. The_Abyss

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 15, 2007

    Posts: 11,084

    Location: Ipswich / Bodham

    They're posted above. They're not the answers to the questions you've been asked - you haven't provided those. They're evidence that you are applying one understanding to a situation, a majority of the electorate supporting an outcome, and therefore evidence that if you consistently apply that same understanding we have your response to what happens if only a minority of the electorate support a no deal Brexit, i.e. there's no mandate for this.
     
  9. garnett

    Mobster

    Joined: Mar 25, 2008

    Posts: 3,821

    Whenever I hear "betraying their own", "Judas" etc, I instinctively wonder how often the same speaker, who uses those sorts of words, uses terms like "race traitor".

    What's your view of Enoch Powell, and his "Rivers of Blood" speech?
     
  10. DarkHorizon472

    Mobster

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 2,581

    See above for your answer.

    The question is then why given you can’t explain the economic benefits of a wto no deal brexit, or the political, democratic or social benefits either, what makes you such a strong supporter of a wto no deal brexit ?
     
  11. thenewoc

    Mobster

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    I think even if The Brexit Party get less than 50% it will still be greater than Lib Dems + Change UK.
     
  12. The_Abyss

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 15, 2007

    Posts: 11,084

    Location: Ipswich / Bodham

    But you've avoided the question again, which was about no deal Brexit. Only two parties are pushing for this, and if fewer than 50% of the electorate vote for them, as per your previous statements do you accept that there is no mandate for a no deal Brexit? Or are you just using this position when it suits your own particular point?
     
  13. Cern

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 3, 2008

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    Location: London

    It is likely that the BP will get more seats than the parties who have declared strongly for Remain: Lib Dems + CUK + Greens + SNP. Probably will be close though. But then add in the Labour seats, who are not in favour of No Deal and this will be clearly more than the BP+UKIP. So the mandate for No Deal just isn't there, even if you add the Tories into the No Deal side of the equation.
     
  14. thenewoc

    Mobster

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    Location: West Sussex, England

    It's not relevant since I don't believe the parties campaigning for remain are greater than those campaigning for leave.

    It's also not relevant because we've had a democratic GE in 2017 where not only the majority stood on leave manifestos but the majority of UK parliament voted to trigger Art.50. Every MP knew what was in Art.50 because it was their job to know what they were voting on. Leaving without a deal was always in Art.50 and has been there since the Treaty of Lisbon came in to effect from 2009.

    The reason we haven't left already is because parliament have stalled for time rather than adhering to what they already agreed to in Art.50
     
  15. The_Abyss

    Capodecina

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    It is entirely relevant, because the public are voting. As you've repeatedly said, this is an opportunity to send a message. So if that message is that a majority do not support a no deal Brexit then that's an important one, and the majority of people don't believe that we should leave without a deal. If they did, they've had a clear opportunity to express their view. Especially in the case of the Brexit Party, as it is literally their only stated objective.

    So, whether or not you consider it relevant, what's your view? Do you have the same view (that you've helpfully restated above, thank you) that it is valid that a majority of people voted for parties with manifestos to leave, in that if a majority refuse to vote for parties who have manifestos / sole objectives to leave without a deal, then there's no mandate to leave without a deal.
     
  16. GordyR

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 1, 2003

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    Location: Essex

    Why won’t you answer the question? It’s a very simple one.

    I can almost hear your mental gymnastics working in overdrive as you’re trying to somehow massage your answer into something that doesn’t contradict your predetermined views.

    That discomfort you’re feeling is known as cognitive dissonance.
     
  17. thenewoc

    Mobster

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    Location: West Sussex, England

    You can't add Tory or Labour into that equation because neither are pro one way or the other. It's disingenuous to only count whether BP + UKIP get over 50%. If it were indicative votes it would be whether that option had the highest support.
     
  18. thenewoc

    Mobster

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    It's not relevant for the reasons I've given, there's no rule or compulsion for you to like the answer!
     
  19. GordyR

    Mobster

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    Location: Essex

    BP and UKIP are the only two parties campaigning for a “No Deal” Brexit.

    If between them they fail to reach 50% of the vote, then they are in the minority. Those who voted against “No Deal” parties would make up the majority, and must have their vote respected right?
     
  20. The_Abyss

    Capodecina

    Joined: May 15, 2007

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    Location: Ipswich / Bodham

    And this is why I posted your other posts, so that your reasoning on one matter can be applied to an identical situation when you refuse to answer a simple question.

    And that reasoning is that if the Brexit Party and UKIP - the only parties campaigning for a no deal Brexit - fail to win more than 50% of the vote then there is no public mandate for a no deal Brexit. The public will have sent a message.