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The Brexit Party

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Mr Badger, May 8, 2019.

  1. RDM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 20,041

    Personally I don't think you can even say that. You can say that only 1/3 of people voted for a specifically No Deal Brexit Party but that is all. It is quite possible that some voters want No Deal but still voted for Labour and Conservatives. You could say that some people voting for the Brexit Party are actually just voting for Farage and don't really know what he stands for.

    I think all we can take from the EU elections are that the country is still very divided, still doesn't know what it wants and is unlikely to coalesce behind one path any time soon.
     
  2. Cern

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 3, 2008

    Posts: 3,163

    Location: London

    But that highest share is only 32% of the votes cast on a 36% turnout. It's not a mandate for No Deal / WTO Brexit however you try and spin in. The Lib Dems and Greens both want to stop Brexit and their combined vote also came to 32%. Then you can add in SNP and PC who both want at bare minimum a second referendum between a deal and Remain (so clearly not in favour of WTO either).
     
  3. Six6siX

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 25, 2004

    Posts: 4,722

    Location: Hertfordshire

    I agree - that's more accurate. Even in that context my original point is still applicable I think:
    1/3 of the vote on ~1/3 turnout is neither a mandate for a WTO brexit / no deal exit nor an indication of a majority in support of the same.
     
  4. Murphy

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 1,421

    So how many extra seats did they get than UKIP got in 2014? Because let's face it the BP are nothing more than a reincarnation of the cult of Farage.
    Do you think they'll tell people what group they'll align with and some details of how they intended to deliver on their 'pledges'?
    And what side will the be on? Because if it's on the UK's side then they'll be European politicians negotiating against the organisation they're representing and if it's the EU' side then they'll be acting against the UK's best interests, honestly how people who voted for the BP didn't see through this particular paradox is quiet staggering.
    Indeed it does, it sends the message that 44 out of 73 MEPs that were elected do not support leaving without a WA and that 65% of the public do not support leaving without an agreement.

    It also shows that 56% of the public do not support leaving the EU at all, according to the BP own definition of what parties are remain parties.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  5. Mr Badger

    Soldato

    Joined: Dec 27, 2009

    Posts: 6,092

    Aside from the obvious issues with voting for Farage and his latest "policy lite" rebranding, I have yet to speak to a leave voter that shows any real understanding of what a No Deal Brexit would actually entail. I've heard that it will mean cheaper food, no more money to the EU and the end of freedom of movement, with the only problem being that we will need to pay for a visa to go to France. The concerns raised by pretty much every relevant expert about the impact are just ignored and hand waved away as being project fear or something that will get sorted out because the EU will come running once we actually leave. I'm more than happy to be proved wrong here if someone can evidence that people voting for the Brexit Party do fully understand the implications of a No Deal Brexit and that the Brexit Party has a realistic plan in place to deal with all the issues.
     
  6. Outcast

    Mobster

    Joined: Jan 25, 2008

    Posts: 2,868

    Location: Peterboro, Distro:Ubuntu

    In 2014 a Referendum wasn't even on the cards. Jo/ann Ordinary didn't give a dead rats arse about EU elections. They are much more "Woke" now and still BXP spanked just about em all.

    The true test will be June 6th right here in my hometown of Peterborough.
     
  7. Murphy

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 1,421

    Maybe i missed it but what you've just said makes no mention of how many extra seats they got than UKIP did in 2014. :confused:
     
  8. ColdAsIce

    Mobster

    Joined: May 26, 2006

    Posts: 4,849

    Location: Edinburgh

    Pretty simple answer. UKIP had 24 seats previously. They have lost all 24 seats. The Brexit Party has 29 seats. +5 gain from previous EU elections when Farage was leader of UKIP.
     
  9. robgmun

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 30, 2006

    Posts: 14,503

    UKIP got 24 seats in 2014...BXP got 29 this time round, an increase of 5. Yes BXP took all the UKIP seats but it also built on that and took alot of votes from CONS and LAB

    They would but they wouldn't need to, all this kind of things needs to be declared regardless and would be seen in voting anyway, you'd know either way

    That may be true, but don't discount those 44 MEPs to want out as well and align themselves to the BXP in votes in the EU

    Again, be careful of using mental gymnastics like that, as i have shown earlier this morning. Out of the 56% a significant number wouldn't mind leaving the EU with a deal, almost a 3rd of the 56%
     
  10. Murphy

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Sep 16, 2018

    Posts: 1,421

    5 Extra seats isn't exactly what you'd call stellar gains, especially considering how hard the BP campaigned and how lackluster everyone else's was.
    Isn't that a little contradictory, you've just said they would, despite probably not knowing what they may do, and in the same sentence said they would not need to.
    And what does "this kind of things needs to be declared regardless and would be seen in voting anyway" even mean, that's a word salad if ever I've seen one, do you mean who they're going to align with needs to be declared before voting? Because if so I'd love to know where the BP declared that. Or do you mean the group they'll align with will be demonstrated in their voting records? Because if so you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the EU parliament operates.
    Only they don't, do they.
    Sorry but i find it hard to believe, from previous exchanges with you, that you've managed to show anything, in fact you have a habit of disproving your own point.

    It's not mental gymnastics (you know trying to co-opt that phrase doesn't really work when you can't recognise when someone's doing it), it's using what the BP have stated to reach a conclusion, did you not read where i said "according to the BP own definition of what parties are remain parties."?

    In case you missed it the BP posted a tweet that said a vote for Labour equals a vote to remain, as i said using the BP very own definition of what parties are remain parties the conclusion is that 56% of the public do not support leaving the EU, now whether you or i agree with their definition or not (i don't) is irrelevant as this is a thread about the BP and what they do or don't believe.
     
  11. ricid

    Gangster

    Joined: Sep 26, 2018

    Posts: 348

    Yeah any conclusions are tricky. We had a referendum that condensed a spectrum of outcomes to a binary choice. Now we've had an election where people are taking a spectrum of choices and attempting to condense that into a binary opinion. Neither approach is particularly valid, just more fuel for the fire.
     
  12. DarkHorizon472

    Mobster

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 2,686

    That is without doubt the funniest post you have made so far. The brexit party lost numerous votes from the 52% voting leave and over two thirds voted against no deal brexit. Their percentage of the vote was well below the predictions in the polls. A map boasting about that possibility not a good idea.
     
  13. DarkHorizon472

    Mobster

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 2,686

    Being rejected by two thirds of voters is not winning. Also claiming to want a wto no deal brexit with simultaneously wanting to be in on negotiating a brexit deal is comical. Maybe not as much a doing it when boasting about having no policies and no plan.
     
  14. singularity

    Hitman

    Joined: Apr 2, 2007

    Posts: 906

    Wow, the percentage was not below the predictions in the polls, you admit 52% was a winning margin?, you do realise that the European elections were not a straight 2 way choice?

    Do you admit that the brexit party got more votes than any other party?

    Do you admit a party that campaigned on the basis of leaving the eu was more popular than any other party?
     
  15. singularity

    Hitman

    Joined: Apr 2, 2007

    Posts: 906

    lol, so being rejected by 90% of voters or 80% of voters is winning, come on, you're pushing this one.
     
  16. DarkHorizon472

    Mobster

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 2,686

    First question only one third voted for no deal brexit parties, two thirds didn’t clearly rejecting a no deal brexit.

    Second question, yes that’s right.

    Third question, if you do a comparison by the brexit party v any individual party that is correct. See answer to question one for the overall view.
     
  17. DarkHorizon472

    Mobster

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 2,686

    Sorry you have to explain that one only one third voted for no deal brexit parties , two thirds rejected no deal brexit.
     
  18. singularity

    Hitman

    Joined: Apr 2, 2007

    Posts: 906

    this is incorrect
     
  19. DarkHorizon472

    Mobster

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 2,686

    The problem is you can’t explain why, just like you can’t explain why a no deal wto brexit benefits the UK overall.
     
  20. singularity

    Hitman

    Joined: Apr 2, 2007

    Posts: 906

    Err I don't think I said no deal WTO benefits the UK, I just said politicians should do what they say they are going to do when they are begging for your vote.

    As to the incorrect, I would have thought it was blatantly obvious, you cannot possibly know why people voted for a particular party. You only know the count for each party.

    As an example, quite a few people I suspect may have voted for the green party because of their environmental policies.?
    Do you think members of momentum voted labour purely because they want to stay in the eu?

    This was not a referendum.