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The Conservative Party: Where do we go from here?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Gigabit, Jun 10, 2017.

  1. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,126

    Yes, we can't move for stressed out teachers who stay for around a month near our place in France during the summer. They don't stint themselves at other times either.
     
  2. VincentHanna

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jul 30, 2013

    Posts: 15,517

    Young people = bad/stupid

    Got it.
     
  3. SPG

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 28, 2010

    Posts: 4,708

    The majority of these failing schools are in areas where CONSERVATIVE cuts have hit the hardest, you know shutting down of youth clubs, after school extras, social services, the parents do not help, so unless the state does we are just going to keep on repeating the same mistakes.

    Like it or not not everyone has/wants/needs to have the ill thought idelogy of the Tory`s of strive strive strive, you need X,Y,Z buy buy buy rammed down them and told its the only way survive.

    Its failed on so many levels, now i am not saying the opposite is any better its clearly not. Factual evidence based politics is what is missing from this country, the tools and data we have from social sciences is fantastic yet it all gets dismissed to Tory idelogy which is stuck in the 1920s and 1980s. You only have to look at the all committees Mogg hangs around... all get off my land gentry toffs in their 70s
     
  4. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,126

    It is what it is. There are of course exceptions.
     
  5. DarkHorizon472

    Wise Guy

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 1,923

    Stint ?
     
  6. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 1,455

    No that hasnt been their mantra. I think you will find that not under funding services has benefits while under funding has its negatives as has been proven over the last 8 years.

    And now that money is being drawn back and it has had a negative effect.
    I sure the same could be said about you going by the posts you produce sometimes.
     
  7. RDM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 19,895

    I’m going to hazard a guess that I might have a little more contact with kids than you. Your statement just isn’t true. The exceptions are the bad kids. Most of whom have very good reasons for behaving the way they do. If you reduce school funding you end up with less suitable curricula and larger class sizes that then leads to poorer educational attainment.

    The recent increase in per-16 education (16-18 has been cut quite hard) was wiped out by the increases in employers NI. 80% of a schools costs are wages. To reduce that wage bill you need to cut teaching staff, which leads to increased class sizes and less choice in subjects. STEM subjects are particularly hard hit as they are both expensive and hard to find staff for.
     
  8. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,126

    A wider curriculum and payment by results and not simply exam results is something that should be tried.
     
  9. RDM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 19,895

    If not exam results what metric would you use? Also bear in mind unintended consequences of making targets responsible for payment. Is it per teacher? If so the head of department will probably have the best classes, if it is per school then head teachers will gear the curriculum towards what pays best, not what is best for the student.
     
  10. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,126

    A test for good old fashioned commonsense would help. When I was still working (only a few years back) our organisation had to spend weeks schooling new starters in the basics. They came to us with a string of qualifications but with absolutely know commonsense whatsoever. How has such a situation come about? I absolutely know for a fact I didn't leave school (1960's) so devoid about knowledge of everyday life and how to do things.

    I used to comment I didn't know how they managed to put their pants on in a morning. If you tried to engage them in a discussion about current affairs their faces used to go blank. It wasn't just me either as most of my work colleagues used to end up muttering and shaking their heads in disbelief. Many of them would comment 'all this money spent on education and the students are as thick as two short planks'.
     
  11. RDM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 19,895

  12. Dolph

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 45,221

    Location: Plymouth

    You have to be very careful when constructing risk and reward plans to drive performance improvement. Its hard to do well even in an environment such as a call centre where you have data for just about everything. Teaching currently doesn't provide anywhere near the volume and diversity of objective data you would need to do it without major ways of working changes to make the data collectable. (for starters, you would have to move all work from books to something online, and move all the marking away from teachers in that school. You'd probably also have to add in continuous classroom recording if you were really serious about it so observations can happen at any point and without knowledge it was being observed). It's also really important to understand what impact the targets will have on non targeted measures, and to ensure that people don't start working to task. You need good, multivariate analysis, reporting and feedback processes for that, and that's something many naturally data rich environments don't get right.

    It's ultimately also important to remember that the students and their education are the focus and the target, the management of teaching behaviour and quality has to drive that, not something else.

    It's not impossible, but it's very specialised and not something that can ever be driven by politics, whether national, local or workplace.
     
  13. doodah

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 18,142

    Location: London

    Is there a good example of this in practice elsewhere in the world with good outcomes?
     
  14. Tony Edwards

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Feb 4, 2018

    Posts: 1,455

    Yes everything the Tories do. Oh sorry you said with good outcomes. Nope.
     
  15. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 15,550

    Looks like UC just got slapped by a judge, oops. This could end it completely.
     
  16. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,126

    I'm pretty sure our generation was though. Going to the 'school of hard knocks' rather than being cossetted tends to do that to the individual.
     
  17. StriderX

    Capodecina

    Joined: Mar 18, 2008

    Posts: 15,550

    Also had the easiest economic time ever in Britain (at least there was a tangible future to look forward to), which is decidedly over, but you know apparently some light abuse from teachers is wut dun it.
     
  18. chroniclard

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 9,558

    I wasn't taught any common sense at school 30 years ago. Seriously inane ramblings.
     
  19. FortuitousFluke

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 7, 2011

    Posts: 2,830

    Location: Cambridgeshire

    Why is common sense the sole responsibility of the school? If I meet a kid who likes to lick plug sockets I'm wondering about the parents, not the teachers.
     
  20. V F

    Capodecina

    Joined: Aug 13, 2003

    Posts: 14,991

    Location: UK

    I thought it was the paintbrushes and glue stick/spreaders...