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The Conservative Party: Where do we go from here?

Discussion in 'Speaker's Corner' started by Gigabit, Jun 10, 2017.

  1. FortuitousFluke

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 7, 2011

    Posts: 3,408

    Location: Cambridgeshire

    I don't think anybody would have an issue with discussing the various merits of children today vs children in the year xxxx, if you can provide some kind of study of stats or anything that equates to more than "I think they were better back then" then I'm sure we can have a reasoned debate.
     
  2. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,314

    I'm hardly advocating a return to Tom Brown's school days - funny.
     
  3. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,314

    I suspect evidence is a bit thin on the ground as debate was substituted with ''this is what should happen and this is what shouldn't'.
     
  4. FortuitousFluke

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 7, 2011

    Posts: 3,408

    Location: Cambridgeshire

    And now you see why nobody wants to play with you. You suggest people don't want to engage because they will find the truth uncomfortable, and then can't back that up with anything other than nostalgia.
     
  5. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,314

    But I wasn’t responsible for ending a system that had its merits for something new and untried. It was one of the biggest social experiments of our time initiated by HMG. If evidence exists then it’s a bit thin on the ground, purposely I suspect.
     
  6. DarkHorizon472

    Mobster

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 2,581

    If you think an inability of an adult to not just control but teach a child how to behave means physical violence is needed against the child then I feel very sorry for you.

    Trying to hide behind claims of emotive language and it was OK for me when condoning physical violence on a child due to an adult not being able to control and advise reveals a great deal.

    The role of an adult is to teach and support children not beat them due to being in a frustrating situation they feel they can't control. That is putting aside the legal implications.
     
  7. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,314

    I look to a well used maxim ‘spare the rod and spoil the child’. Why do you think new thinking is superior.
     
  8. DarkHorizon472

    Mobster

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 2,581

    Put another way what situations have you been in when beating children was the only reasonable way to resolve them ?
     
  9. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,314

    If I ever had a moments hesitation that the old system might not be the best I look at the evidence all around us. Today’s society is nasty and full of vile individuals and I believe is the product of this grand social experiment.
     
  10. Rroff

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 13, 2006

    Posts: 61,587

    Personally I think too many kids spending their childhood dumped in front of the TV and/or with both parents working is more to blame than the lack of the rod.
     
  11. Uther

    Sgarrista

    Joined: Jun 16, 2005

    Posts: 9,111

    Didn't Thatcher have something to say about 'society'?
    Today's society is the fault of a Conservative government that thinks food banks are a great idea, with homeless figures going nowhere but up.
     
  12. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,314

    On that we can agree. Latch key kids was never a good idea.
     
  13. FortuitousFluke

    Mobster

    Joined: Jul 7, 2011

    Posts: 3,408

    Location: Cambridgeshire

    So your argument is let's start hitting kids again because feelings? You've given as much evidence to support your claim as I have to support the suggestion that the decline in the popularity of the mullet has led to an increase in obesity.
     
  14. RDM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 20,019

    Again, speaking only from experience, those children most likely to be problematic are also the kids most likely to have parents use corporal punishment. I also get slightly concerned about people that think hitting kids will solve problems despite all of the evidence that says otherwise. But hey, who needs evidence anyway.
     
  15. DarkHorizon472

    Mobster

    Joined: May 16, 2007

    Posts: 2,581

    “Put another way what situations have you been in when beating children was the only reasonable way to resolve them ?”

    That was the question I asked you so I could understand your view better. Could you give a few real life examples ?
     
  16. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,314

    Where is the evidence for either of your sweeping statements?

    I just been watching an article on the news showing anti-social behaviour on buses. The feature stated some of the worst behaviour is by school children. Things have now got so bad that Police are travelling on the buses in order to offer saftey to other passengers. I believe this is the product of a lack of discipline in the home at school and by society at large.

    It's come to something when buses are no longer safe.
     
  17. RDM

    Capodecina

    Joined: Feb 1, 2007

    Posts: 20,019

    Was the “from my experience” not indicative enough that it is from my experience of working with youngsters? As to the latter, weren’t the studies not mentioned earlier in the thread? I know you were asked for some actual evidence that hitting children leads to better outcomes?
     
  18. chroniclard

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 11,457

    Location: Hertfordshire

    Discipline does not equal beatings. Just face facts, your views are 40 years out of date and have no basis in reality any longer. :)
     
  19. Arthur Hucksake

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 14, 2010

    Posts: 2,943

    Location: Nottingham

    Some interesting topics being debated here currently. My old man tells me about how things use to be and that teachers were cruel at his Catholic school. The difference being if a teacher hit him as "punishment" he would swing hooks back at them.

    Even back then he saw that as being self defence.

    Such punishment hindered his education and this isnt for doing anything drastic. Just talking out of turn would get you hit .
     
  20. Faustus

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 20, 2007

    Posts: 5,314

    Out of date, out of favour does not mean those views are not valid.

    I believe the behaviour I reference in my post 5757 demonstrates that this liberal social experiment has not worked and has made society a more unpleasant place and is an abject failure.

    Just one example among many.